tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post8149624774161814377..comments2024-03-28T03:24:11.539-04:00Comments on Daniel Greenfield / Sultan Knish Articles at DanielGreenfield.org : Nation Building or Islam BuildingDaniel Greenfieldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-74237168412715439872016-09-01T05:30:55.885-04:002016-09-01T05:30:55.885-04:00Could someone define for me the term "islamis...Could someone define for me the term "islamist". Could someone point out to me any muslim, muslim state or mosque that defines itself as "islamist"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-45314787767863702532016-08-31T12:16:10.980-04:002016-08-31T12:16:10.980-04:00Thanks for tackling this nation-building question ...Thanks for tackling this nation-building question and, as usual, describing everything more simply and clearly than most other people writing about the subject. Of the two choices, banning Muslim immigration definitely seems like the easier and quicker option. There are plenty of countries out there already doing this to some degree (like Japan), and guess what? No Islamic terrorism! - JamieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-24025909349481977572016-08-31T01:40:49.167-04:002016-08-31T01:40:49.167-04:00It's not "massive failure"; it's...It's not "massive failure"; it's massive CORRUPTION of US policymakers (from foreign policy bureaucrats all the way to top leaders) by Arab/Islamic petrodollars.<br /><br />Based on agendas set by such corruption, the policies were a remarkable success!<br /><br />Only the clueless US public IS made to think that these carefully crafted policies resulted in "failure" (i.e., something other than intended results)...<br /><br />The results were nothing but a great success for the Islamists and their paid proxies in the West!<br /><br />It was not an easy battle for them -- on the contrary, it was a gargantuan effort across the US and Europe, that took many years of planning and execution, and cost untold billions of oil money (money we the West gave them!).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-76615687597519883412016-08-30T16:15:43.523-04:002016-08-30T16:15:43.523-04:00Finally, the idea that the Bath party politics of ...Finally, the idea that the Bath party politics of yester- years Irak and Syria molded into ISIS cast of permanent war under the banner of Islam. <br /><br />This is one dimension that was completelly overlooked (I might say completely disregarded). The fascist (Neo-nazi) Bath ideology of Arabism. Thanks Daniel for bringing it up. What happened to it? Well my theory is that the new chapter of fascism that was about to rise, could not have been allowed to do so in the intellectual culture of the 1960's, 70's and 80's drenched to the bones with cultural Marxism and Thirld World revolutions and quasi-permanent intifadas. Now, this new Arabo-fascism has come to mastisize into ISIS and the proxy-movements of Houties, Bokoharam, Eshabab and other Sunnis Saudi controlled Islamic groups. In a sense, the true of face of Islam is for all to see which is a permanent war against Western values. A post-modern type of nightmarish fascism that could not escape its true nature. Let us beware of even so-called non-fundamentalist Islam, because it is only one degree away from tyranny and submission.<br />Thanks again for bringing forth the Bath ideology of the yester-years. Sammishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-37273066900013633012016-08-29T23:48:03.698-04:002016-08-29T23:48:03.698-04:00Great article. Very little discussion of the trib...Great article. Very little discussion of the tribalism in the Middle East, even in the so-called right wing press. <br /><br />I guess it sounds vaguely insulting. Whatever. Also: Muslim immigrants are bringing their tribalism with them. Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13041676434895574477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-79500754261810739202016-08-29T22:23:09.384-04:002016-08-29T22:23:09.384-04:00Great article! The examples of recent conflicts ar...Great article! The examples of recent conflicts are evidence of very wrong policies, but the U.S. has been deliberately "building Islam" for many decades and nobody has questioned Dept. of State where a deep rooted Islamist/Arabist cabal has carried on with the Islamization project, no matter which party or president came to rule. US efforts of Islamization began in 1950s in the form of building a "green/Islamic belt" against spread of USSR/communism. Long after the end of the Cold War, those policies remained unchanged, defying all logic! "Arab Spring" was initiated, rather launched by the U.S. with the role it played and support it provided to bring Turkish Islamist Erdogan and his party AKP to power in Turkey. It was the rehearsal before the Arab Spring and it "succeeded"! Succeeded not in nation building, but in destroying a nation. Ataturk's Turkey, the only secular, modern, parliamentary democracy (if not perfect) in the entire Islamic world was sacrificed to political Islam. Along with all its institutions, liberties, and its rule of law, Turkey now is LOST! No one asks "Who Lost Turkey?"; no one and no policies are held accountable. Iraq, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and Syria followed where the US partnered with the bad, Islamist actors. As we speak, our so-called ally Islamist Erdogan's military, along with their jihadi friends in Syria are pounding our real allies the (secular) Kurds, who the US is selling out! <br />These policies turned the already problematic region into an inferno, all with the pretext of finding "moderate Islamists" to "build democracies". <br />As Erdogan of Turkey had said countless times: "There is no moderate Islam! There is one Islam!"; "Democracy is not a goal but a tool to reach a goal"; "Sovereignty does not belong to the people, but only to Allah, the ultimate ruler"; "Democracy is like a tram car that you take to get to your desired destination - where you get off of it". Words that the reckless policy makers in the US chose to not hear. <br />Now political Islam that we helped build threatens the world! And most of us are still surprised? After many decades of wrong policies that brought this threat to our shores, to our allies - and especially to Israel - our country desperately needs a fundamental change. We need to replace all of the old foreign-policy makers in all our institutions, especially in Dept. of State and some in CIA, whose tired minds are stuck in the Cold War era. This much needed change cannot come with Hillary, who is the very person who brought a cold winter, (along with ISIS and bloodshed) to Middle East, and called it "spring".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-46630516795785391692016-08-29T17:00:25.191-04:002016-08-29T17:00:25.191-04:00Empress Trudy...
wow. yes.Empress Trudy...<br />wow. yes.staceyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08872800621811343464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-71717023786248039502016-08-29T16:11:26.935-04:002016-08-29T16:11:26.935-04:00What "nation-building" has done is essen...What "nation-building" has done is essentially legitimize Islam as an "alternative" ideology. The U.S. has done is tantamount to legitimizing Nazism.Edward Clinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12160209827969614964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-68012061710321992292016-08-29T15:20:06.049-04:002016-08-29T15:20:06.049-04:00Great article! While the examples of recent confli...Great article! While the examples of recent conflicts are evidence of very wrong policies, the U.S. has been deliberately "building Islam" for a long time and nobody has questioned Dept. of State where a deep rooted Islamist/Arabist cabal has carried on with the Islamization project, no matter which party or president came to rule. US efforts of Islamization began in 1950s in the form of building a "green/Islamic belt" against spread of USSR/communism, and long after the end of the Cold War, incomprehensively it remained unchanged! Real (Arab) Spring was initiated, rather launched by the U.S. with the role it played and assistance it provided for bringing Turkish Islamist Erdogan and his party AKP to power in Turkey. It was the rehearsal before the Arab Spring and it "succeeded"! Succeeded not in nation building, but in destroying a nation. Ataturk's Turkey, the only secular, modern, parliamentary democracy (even if not perfect) in the Islamic world was sacrificed to political Islam. Along with all its institutions, liberties, and its rule of law, Turkey is LOST! And no one asks "Who Lost Turkey?"; no one and no policy were held accountable. Iraq, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and Syria followed where the US partnered with the bad, Islamist actors. These policies turned the already problematic region to an inferno, all with the pretext of finding moderate Islamists, who would "build democracies". As Erdogan of Turkey had said countless times: "There is no moderate Islam! There is one Islam!"; "Democracy is not a goal but a vehicle"; "Sovereignty does not belong to the people, but only to Allah"; "Democracy is like a tram car that you take to get to your desired destination where you get off of it". Words that the reckless policy makers in the US chose to not hear. Now Islamism that we helped build threatens the world! And most are still surprised? After many decades of wrong policies that brought this threat to our shores, to our allies - especially to Israel - our country desperately needs a fundamental change. We need to replace the old foreign policy makers who are stuck in the Cold War era and rebuild all our institutions for the benefit (and in defense) of our country, our allies, and our civilization!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-843910664222020622016-08-29T13:55:37.251-04:002016-08-29T13:55:37.251-04:00"...We have two options for preventing the sp..."...We have two options for preventing the spread of Islamic political violence into our countries..."<br />There is a third. What worked in the past? Dictators, like Assad and Saddam, the Saudi Kings, and the other tyrants who rule most of the "stable" Countries in the Gulf, and in fact, most of Africa. Left alone, Assad would have destroyed his internal enemies, and Russia gladly remain an ally, not part ruler, and we would have our "Greens and Leftists" wringing their hands over the injustice and violence, but what we see, here and over there, would have been unthinkable. "Stamping out" Islam is crazy "holy-man" logic!<br />Our policy should be to back rulers who will keep their religious violence at home where it traditionally belongs. We can't fence them in, and let them kill one another, but we can bribe their rulers to do their duty to keep the wackos at home. Our efforts to fix an irreparable society in Iraq were stupid. Bad Intelligence gave us no alternative but to go after Saddam, but staying there was a mistake. I think we understand, now, and it looks like I'm not the only "commenter" to grasp this.DenisOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-21493455983953611282016-08-29T10:35:08.234-04:002016-08-29T10:35:08.234-04:00It's not massive failure; it's massive COR...It's not massive failure; it's massive CORRUPTION of US policymakers (from foreign policy bureaucrats all the way to the top) by Arab/Islamic petrodollars.<br /><br />Based on agendas set by such corruption, the policies were a remarkable success!<br /><br />Only useful idiots like the US public are made to think that these carefully crafted policies resulted in "failure" (i.e., something other than the intended outcome)...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-37861151528405914502016-08-29T09:32:25.923-04:002016-08-29T09:32:25.923-04:00The concept of nation building is, on its face bad...The concept of nation building is, on its face badly flawed and badly limited. When we speak of this we're talking about western industrialized nations rebuilding other western industrialized nations in the wake of purposeful destruction of their buildings, plants, infrastructure and social and civic institutions. As a concept, nation building is only about a hundred years old. It's only after the shock of WW1 that anyone considered this something to accomplish. The British didn't nation build South Africa after the Boer War, the US didn't nation build the Philippines after the Spanish American War. The Germans didn't nation build France after the Franco Prussian war. And to be fair, not even Reconstruction in the South was an effort to nation build. It was an effort to suppress the south and keep them weak with an imposed order from the Federal government. It was political not institutional. <br /><br />Be that as it may, in the wake of WW1 our efforts to nation build were only aimed at countries that more or less were at the same level as us and resembled us before the need to rebuild them. These are countries that already had institutions, laws, values, mores, know how, technology to achieve this rebuilding and, if they were successful they would resemble US, not something they themselves were before. <br /><br />The Mideast has none of that. No history of nationhood, only tribalism and sectarian violence. Little education, few civic institutions and little in the way of rule of law. Baksheesh and family connections are the only way things get done. You can't hold up a contract in the Mideast and have it honored. There is no history of participatory pluralism, no notion that losers form a loyal opposition who sticks to the rules in defeat and little if any culture where power transfers w/o tanks in the streets. <br /><br />We can't nation build because there's no nation TO build. After all in the Mideast you have two mutually exclusive options: totalitarianism and anarchy. Pick one and hold on because it's inevitably going to swing to the other extreme. The British realized the hopelessness of remaking the Mideast as Britain a long time ago. Their post colonial plan consisted of a holding strategy to impose each new 'nation' they carved out of these squabbling tribes. That holding strategy was built on a few premises: 1) put an ethnic minority in charge, that way they won't attempt rampant genocide and will at least put a happy face on the delicate balance of power. This is why the Alawites in Syria exist. 2) if possible make the ethnic minority leadership foreign so that there are no local tribal alliances. The Jordanian monarchy is Saudi and the Saudi monarchy is Jordanian as evidence. This is also the case in Qatar and Yemen to some extent with the leadership splitting on Islamic grounds, Sunni vs Shiite. 3) since there is no history of this made up nation, the ties that hold it together have to be along some other axis. It could be anything; pan Arabism, Islamic fundamentalism, antisemitism, Third World-ism, etc. It really doesn't matter the specifics are immaterial. With most of the population ignorant and illiterate they will believe whatever you tell them. 4) importantly don't disrupt the in place tribal and family relationships and power. Let them sort that out on their own. It's the only thing keeping the 'nation' from descending into wars of tribal extermination. <br /><br />This is why nation building will always fail. Because THIS is the nation they have. This is as far as they can take it. Empress Trudyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06073538968722986065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-78348207456642921872016-08-29T06:12:35.046-04:002016-08-29T06:12:35.046-04:00"flipped countries ... into the tar pit of po..."flipped countries ... into the tar pit of political Islam."<br /><br />Too good to let this pass. One of the best lines I've ever seen.Infidelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-8891398230198552092016-08-29T06:08:22.262-04:002016-08-29T06:08:22.262-04:00Thanks. Brilliant analysis. Nation Building has be...Thanks. Brilliant analysis. Nation Building has been one of my pet peeves for many years.Infidelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-64143180402308443762016-08-29T04:06:50.659-04:002016-08-29T04:06:50.659-04:00Obama took the total domestic and geopolitical sit...Obama took the total domestic and geopolitical situation of 2009, and with stunning brilliance, wrought horrendous devastation on Western Civilization, especially the U.S.A. and Israel. Legions of fellow travelers in elected and appointed office, the media, unions administered the thousand cuts. Obama's intentional ruin exceeds that of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. Not bad for eight years, excluding golf.<br /><br />Trump knows; and will employ triage. Stop Muslim invasion, expel subversives and criminals. Control infectious disease. Stop the Fed issuing toilet paper money, and on and on.<br /><br />As for dysfunctional countries, starvation, refugees; do we think we can go around rescuing baby birds? We have to save ourselves first at home and with our remaining allies. Aggression from hostile entities brings our prompt massive retaliation. If they get brutal dictators and fight each other, let them.<br /><br />Seriously, with divided Republicans and a brainwashed citizenry, the nation most in need of building is right here. It won't be easy to save her. <br /><br />ABSJ1136Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-56506088906525562622016-08-29T02:01:39.424-04:002016-08-29T02:01:39.424-04:00Brilliant as usual. Terrific stuff Daniel. The Iri...Brilliant as usual. Terrific stuff Daniel. The Irishman.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-73669574920287875092016-08-29T01:09:16.982-04:002016-08-29T01:09:16.982-04:00Finally, a simple and logical explanation and solu...Finally, a simple and logical explanation and solution. If only our leaders would read this and follow your advice. As you said, it may not work, but at least we can give it a try. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com