tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post6623719885688320583..comments2024-03-28T17:49:27.846-04:00Comments on Daniel Greenfield / Sultan Knish Articles at DanielGreenfield.org : Islam and the Left - Two Sides of the Same CoinDaniel Greenfieldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-78361097685821218762012-10-02T11:15:49.582-04:002012-10-02T11:15:49.582-04:00I just feel that politicians walk around talking a...I just feel that politicians walk around talking about doing things but nothing happens. Whether you are right wing or left wing in terms of the party you work for. What really changes when someone new comes to power?Zane Wooderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10234994003865045370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-8308493611244389852011-01-06T01:31:54.241-05:002011-01-06T01:31:54.241-05:00Interesting.
It might even be convincing if all ...Interesting. <br /><br />It might even be convincing if all the sins you accuse the Left of were not also committed by the Right. Perhaps one day you will come to see that the basic problem is that few people of any ideology can be trusted with power. As it stands now, it's a great example of the pot calling the kettle black.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-36198931342680242702010-07-09T18:58:11.983-04:002010-07-09T18:58:11.983-04:00"...environmentalism was a useful tool for de..."...environmentalism was a useful tool for destroying American industry and making products more expensive, which helped force two-income families"<br />-I contend that internationalization of trade and production, along with the outsourcing of jobs, and the corporate welfare state of the business-controlled US government had FAR more to do with the factors that have led to the two income household -- however, the fact of a two income household is unlikely as far as being a necessity borne from environmental regulation. More likely, it is related with a doubling of the workforce due to women joining the workforce during the world wars. Either way, my point about the ties between the left and islam from the perspective of common cause in power seeking I feel still withstands your counterpoints. Also, re: commonalities between islam and the left as suggested by your post, I don't believe you have made a persuasive argument for disproving my contention that the perspective you take on the left extends to the present, but rather, seems stuck in the mid-20th century.Evan B Wisenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-51526129595656197682010-07-09T18:58:11.984-04:002010-07-09T18:58:11.984-04:00"nothing is homogeneous if you look at it in ..."nothing is homogeneous if you look at it in enough detail, but if you don't simplify and instead constantly enumerate subdivisions, exceptions and differences-- you'll never be able to discuss the bigger picture at all"<br />-True enough. However, I still have a difficult time identifying a movement of/by/from the left that seeks to engage in social action for the primary objective of absolute power or control, with the exception of entrenched politicians; I think we can both agree that left or right, the people who have held power the longest have interests that are very different from those they are supposed to represent under any doctrine or law.<br />"social rights causes were hardly alien to Communism" <br />-Perhaps, but I believe that in your post you dismissed these as a "sham". Which is it? Looking at labor issues from the perspective of major union groups or social justice from the perspective of groups like the ACLU, its difficult for me to draw any meaningful comparison between the social rights movements of the Soviet state and the groups that are most visible on what could be considered the traditional left today.Evan B Wisenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-40089781024995318702010-07-08T10:47:44.133-04:002010-07-08T10:47:44.133-04:00nothing is homogeneous if you look at it in enough...nothing is homogeneous if you look at it in enough detail, but if you don't simplify and instead constantly enumerate subdivisions, exceptions and differences-- you'll never be able to discuss the bigger picture at all<br /><br />social rights causes were hardly alien to Communism, and environmentalism was a useful tool for destroying American industry and making products more expensive, which helped force two-income familiesDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-39537502515846699822010-07-08T10:08:52.335-04:002010-07-08T10:08:52.335-04:00My initial reaction is that this views the left as...My initial reaction is that this views the left as a stoic block of homogenous ideology, which it seldom can truly be said to be. I think the main problem is the view of leftist ideology as lock-step soviet/near-ww2-era style communism, which completely overlooks environmental and social right causes, which I would say are two of the most uniting ideas behind leftism in the states, if not globally. I agree in general with the idea that leaders of movements regardless of ideology can and often do become caught up in politicking and lose sight of their original, widely supported, agendas when/if they gain power. However, that is hardly an explanation of Israel/Palestine/the left. I think that this article falls very very flat and comes off more as a diatribe against a straw man "left" that was conceived on outdated observations and is then described in a way that is logically inconsistent (e.g. fascism and communism are very very different ideologies -- I cede the point that both have been implemented in totalitarian ways).<br /><br />I think a much more accurate analysis would look at the consistent and broad failures of dominant power structures and would be able to identify much more of the alignment with peoples' feelings of disenfranchisement and disenchantment with the modus operandi of said structures before ever having to talk about USSR/WW2 Germany in any context other than its consistency with other world powers at any time in oppressing its own people and those around it in the interests of its own ruling elite.<br /><br />I get that many people get caught up in buzzwords and dont carefully examine the underlying ideologies about causes they support, but this article totally misses the point that most people dont view the conflict from the perspective of wanting power and trying to get it through issues like this one, but instead they talk about militarism, the state, and other institutional power structures that they see as oppressive in their own context and apply the paradigm to the conflict in the ME.<br /><br />I could write more, but I have a meeting.Evan B Wisenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-47939656600556966632010-07-03T09:58:15.884-04:002010-07-03T09:58:15.884-04:00I saw this today and it really hits the mark for y...I saw this today and it really hits the mark for your arguement.<br /><br />http://www.mediaite.com/online/jimmy-kimmel-crew-uses-spotlight-to-irritate-pro-life-demonstrator/<br /><br />The crew has not qualms scorching some young kid with a hot light simply because he is pro-abortion and their not. The police arrest one of the group being intimidated by the crew. I imagine that at any other time this would be child abuse by the crew but because the victims are pro-abortion, it's a free pass. White liberals wouldn't due this to black, hispanic, etc., pro-lifers but white pro-lifers are open game. Same victimization is fine by the police apparently. <br /><br />I believe Moriah's statement above best describes this whole scene.<br /><br />jaelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-12835381283166257022010-07-02T10:44:10.551-04:002010-07-02T10:44:10.551-04:00congratulations, i hope it becomes a fulltime thin...congratulations, i hope it becomes a fulltime thingDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-27143943010486156642010-07-02T10:42:02.699-04:002010-07-02T10:42:02.699-04:00As a followup to this discussion, have any of you ...As a followup to this discussion, have any of you seen that MSNBC ditto heads calling for a military draft? <br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/27h34hq<br /><br />And as an aside - it pays to post on this blog. :) After twenty months of unemployment, my company called yesterday to offer me a contract. Six months to possible fulltime. At least they're getting work again.<br /><br />jaelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-1930008967265872842010-07-02T10:30:02.936-04:002010-07-02T10:30:02.936-04:00I think at this time the leftwing liberals are mor...I think at this time the leftwing liberals are more dangerous than islam in the respect that what the libs do is always supposedly humane and kind and they hide every pupose.But we all know what islam stands for.Put them together and they are deadly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-41170750016286241512010-07-02T07:17:38.196-04:002010-07-02T07:17:38.196-04:00Excellent article, as usual.Excellent article, as usual.Luís Cardosohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05719579065088717823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-52783576278450430432010-07-02T05:20:56.360-04:002010-07-02T05:20:56.360-04:00Sultan Knish
I very much appreciate your article...Sultan Knish<br /><br /><br />I very much appreciate your article, and would also connect this thinking to Israel. <br /><br />Stalin thought that Israel, as the promised state became, was "in the bag to become one of his communist bloc". He had good reason to think this.<br /><br />Even 62 years later there is reason for islaam, hamas and the ""palestinian"authority" to be grateful for the very influential Left/ Liberal Israeli prominance in Israel, which paves the way for so much ignorance amongst the Jewish population, about their and islaam's true intentions.<br /><br />As a new immigrant to Israel from the UK I am only too aware of this "mix", and how what appear opposites or divergents often are in close colaboration.<br /><br />The Israeli Left, for all their "intellectual abillities" can't see the writing on the wall intended by islaam includes them too!!.Yonitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-782548429684750662010-07-01T22:47:12.457-04:002010-07-01T22:47:12.457-04:00DG, these are the kinds of things which need to be...DG, these are the kinds of things which need to be read by young minds today.<br />Their education has been so slanted that it's hard to communicate history to them.<br />Thanks.2sloehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07687684487054065583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-91616950864636959762010-07-01T21:16:22.311-04:002010-07-01T21:16:22.311-04:00Excellent article Mr Greenfield. Keep up the good ...Excellent article Mr Greenfield. Keep up the good work. I enjoyed the responses from the posters. Very informative. I believe the Left and Islam are definitely two sides of the same coin. No question. The question for me is will our kind unite in time and take the action required to save our civilisation and prevail, or are we leaving it too late?Charles Martelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-7028849149563133822010-07-01T20:43:24.567-04:002010-07-01T20:43:24.567-04:00"Men by their constitutions are naturally div..."Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties: <br />1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to <br />draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes. <br />2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence <br />in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, <br />although not the most wise depositary of the public interests. <br /><br />In every country these two parties exist, and in every one where they <br />are free to think, speak, and write, they will declare themselves." <br />--Thomas Jefferson to Henry Lee, 1824.Geoffrey Britainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01663224962346593872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-86125100980823210622010-07-01T13:24:11.166-04:002010-07-01T13:24:11.166-04:00They are two sides of a coin indeed. One side wear...They are two sides of a coin indeed. One side wears the mask of compassionate humanitarian, goodly steward of the earth, lovers of all living things, rescuer of the downtrodden. The other side has a sword, a flame and a book fueling them both that threatens to burn and kill anything that gets in its way. Underneath they are the same. They want to help us cross to the other side of the street and they will wrestle us to the ground, break our arm and grind our faces into the gutter if we resist their generous offer of help.Moriahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10031303390387367887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-70315485413954870992010-07-01T13:12:47.556-04:002010-07-01T13:12:47.556-04:00On the face of it, the simple minded would think i...On the face of it, the simple minded would think it absurd to compare Leftists with Jihads. The fact is, at the core they are driven by the same ambitions superficially masked by great cultural differences. It is the obsession for absolute power---the totalitarian temptation. Eric Hoffer makes the case for this phenomenon in <em>True Believer</em>. <br /><br />Once Leftists have absolute power, they will be forced to turn on the useful idiots who embraced their arrival as they become disillusioned and realize the vision they believed in was a lie. And because it is America this time, the consequences will be greater. Not only will the US suffer for embracing transition to socialism, but the rest of the world now faces instability, and not just economically. This is how world wars are conceived in the womb. <br /><br />Modern civilization will not escape what has taken place without grave consequence.Skarbuttsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-75786403446452086152010-07-01T12:27:59.731-04:002010-07-01T12:27:59.731-04:00Wonderful article as usual. One who has not lived ...Wonderful article as usual. One who has not lived in a communist country but born in the freedom of US can't imagine what it means. Same with Israelis born and bred there who have not experienced the idea of antisemitism except from news, but it doesn't touch. Then they go to Europe, or even Turkey and everyone was sooo nice to them, no, they haven't seen any antisemitism. We talk about real hatred directed towards you as a person, no logic involved. I suppose same with Jews who lived in Muslim countries, they know what it means. The problem today is also the lack of knowledge, people don't read except for trivia, they know no history, miss the whole picture because they relay on their lack of experience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-75110858396837924822010-07-01T12:14:53.671-04:002010-07-01T12:14:53.671-04:00Jael--I too am sorry for what happened. That shows...Jael--I too am sorry for what happened. That shows the hypocrisy of liberals. Liberal in name only, since they expect everyone to follow their very narrow party line.<br /><br />They chose to ignore the victims of Islamic violence (including Arab victims) and accuse Conservatives of being Islamophobic.<br /><br />They support Communism in Cuba but ignore the vehement opposition to it felt by the majority of Cuban Americans, which we saw years ago during protests against returning Elian Gonzalez to Cuba.<br /><br />They also support the Hamas loving Palestinians and ignore the terrorism committed by Hamas.<br /><br />They believe in the fantasy of gobal warming but fully accept Darwinsim. I don't know which is crazier--global warming or Darwinsim.<br /><br /><br />Liberal in name only.Keli Atahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05089132216830000713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-31988535411445544552010-07-01T10:05:28.353-04:002010-07-01T10:05:28.353-04:00sorry about what happened to you,
but liberals s...sorry about what happened to you, <br /><br />but liberals sterilize themselvesDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-57201044166698552772010-07-01T09:09:14.715-04:002010-07-01T09:09:14.715-04:00I recently lost my job due thanks to a Phd candida...I recently lost my job due thanks to a Phd candidate I was unfortunately aligned to work with. <br /><br />He brought up the subjects of Muslims and global warming on the same day. (That should have been the tip off!) He laughed at me and thought me foolish because I don't believe AGW to be real. I gave him proof that it wasn't by showing him a number of sights that contend against it, including a UN site. <br /><br />He asked me whether or not I thought all Muslims are evil. I told him not the individuals (although I wouldn't trust any), but the religion is. He spoke of Iranians he knew that loved agbminijad(however it's spelled), I showed him Persian sites that differed. <br /><br />In the end I was just another ignorant, conservative, christian (or there no catholics, jews, hindus, blacks, asians involved in teaparties?) red neck, teapartier, blah blah blah. <br /><br />I asked why and where did it state that I have to be tolerant of everyone else's view/lifestyle/whatever, but no one had to show tolerance to me? <br /><br />I was let go the next day due to budget cuts.<br /><br />Liberals. Can't live with'em. Can't sterilize'em.<br /><br />jaelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-2881270640960532182010-07-01T00:20:19.378-04:002010-07-01T00:20:19.378-04:00Points crucial to our survival, very well illumina...Points crucial to our survival, very well illuminated -- Thank you! I can only add the encapsulation of this very real and worrisome phenomenon that recurs in my mind:<br /><br />collectivism = submission<br />"Islam" means "submission"<br />Any questions?Troy Stephenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09980585883303673071noreply@blogger.com