tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post6202815259396708930..comments2024-03-28T03:24:11.539-04:00Comments on Daniel Greenfield / Sultan Knish Articles at DanielGreenfield.org : America's Lost FrontierDaniel Greenfieldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-14209951549124138352010-03-11T19:36:13.491-05:002010-03-11T19:36:13.491-05:00Yammit33 erote
GENOCIDE!!! That's one method o...Yammit33 erote<br />GENOCIDE!!! That's one method of civilizing. Never confuse technology with civilization. Values in the end are what defines us or at least should.<br /><br />If you are a representative of what you call civilization, I side with those whom you wish to civilize.<br /><br />You and all the empire builders in history have a lot in common. <br /><br />Hitler and Stalin would have called you brother.<br /><br />-------------------------------<br /><br />Hitler and Stalin are dead, and their legacy with them. <br /><br />Mohammed though still lives on, and his legacy has left a trail of genocide like no other tyrant before or after. Virtually all Muslim countries in the ME were forcibly converted to Islam at the point of a sword. None of the culture of Zoroastrians remain in Iran. Zoroastrians are probably a smaller minority then even the Jews. <br />Islam is not yet finished with this planet, and we are likely to see a lot of blood shed because of it. Like here<br /><br />At least 500 women and children in Nigeria, were massacred last week, by Muslims.<br /><br />From the Anglican Diocese of Jos<br /><br />http://www.anglicandioceseofjos.org/dogo.html<br /><br />This post by SK was a light-hearted one, and I responded to it in a quasi-lighthearted tone.<br /><br />But as you have injected a serious note, with accusation of 'Hilter' and 'Stalin' coming in the invective, then<br /><br />Considering the havoc that Islam has created in the ME making Hitler and Stalin look like beginners, why should it not be a matter of consideration to remove this ideology in a manner that it does no further harm? Note that your support for an in ideology that has been far more destructive then Hitler or Stalin, has not reduced me to name calling.<br /><br />As for empires and empire building, the Islamic empire not just colonised the lands of non-Muslims but removed their cultures as well. The last vestiges of the Buddhist kingdom, the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan, were blasted from the mountainside. <br /><br />Not all empires are bad. Some are better then others, and some may be a definite improvement on the present situation. An American empire, though highly unlikely, as it is not in the mindset of Americans to be empire builders, would not be such a bad idea in many parts of the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-11267973031930417512010-03-10T23:33:07.728-05:002010-03-10T23:33:07.728-05:00Most of this is over my head but the writing is so...Most of this is over my head but the writing is so crisp and beautiful. Well done, Daniel:)<br /><br />How you manage to do this everyday amazes me!Keli Atahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05089132216830000713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-77453953057981144612010-03-10T16:03:05.105-05:002010-03-10T16:03:05.105-05:00Did we see the wholesale enslavement of Indian pop...Did we see the wholesale enslavement of Indian populations by American colonists that we saw under the Spanish?<br /><br />In the Cherokee Trail of Tears for example, the Supreme Court took the Indian side. Jackson illegally violated the law and wrongly exploited congressional authority to force them out.<br /><br />This entire discussion is a tangent, but you might want to read up on how many tribes in the area of the colonies were assimilated or the destroyed by the Iroquois Confederacy, who behaved much as the European powers were accused of behaving.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-80889837957900060102010-03-10T15:44:22.141-05:002010-03-10T15:44:22.141-05:00Unlike the Spanish, the American colonists general...Unlike the Spanish, the American colonists generally tried to co-exist with the Indian population, until the Iroquois Confederation chose to side with the British, and engage in terrorism against American settlers.<br /><br /><br /><br />and: "American courts often took the Indian side".<br /><br /><br />Can you cite your sources for these statements?yamit33https://www.blogger.com/profile/04463759375229777469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-90480315717071009922010-03-10T10:16:50.756-05:002010-03-10T10:16:50.756-05:00There was no genocide. The European colonists play...There was no genocide. The European colonists played a role in the Indian wars against their own, such as the Iroquois Confederation which destroyed and conquered numerous native peoples. It's no different than the Norman Conquest. <br /><br />Unlike the Spanish, the American colonists generally tried to co-exist with the Indian population, until the Iroquois Confederation chose to side with the British, and engage in terrorism against American settlers.<br /><br />In the 19th century there were some ugly events that took place, but there was a larger context to them that's often overlooked, and American courts often took the Indian side.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-32010806364271445532010-03-10T03:41:32.207-05:002010-03-10T03:41:32.207-05:00Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog said...
...Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog said...<br /><br />would say that the Arab Muslim ruled Middle East is not so much in need of civilizing, as in removing the power of the Arab Muslims over the entire region<br /><br />But that is certainly not genocide. And specious comparisons to Hitler are both incorrect and inappropriate.<br /><br /><br />I was referring actually to the statement I quote below from DP111 re: <br /><br />2. "It is currently populated by a bunch of people who are in dire need of civilising or<br />being replaced, as the north American Indians were".<br /><br />Excuse me the Europeans came to another land , took it from the aboriginal inhabitants, and proceeded to use every method that was know to them in the elimination of that population.<br /><br />Any knowledgeable reader here I am sure would concur with my description of Americans murder and subjugation of the Indian as genocide even though the concept did not exist in the 17-19th centuries. <br /><br />The fact remains that the wholesale slaughter and murder of whole peoples and nations is by our modern definitions genocide .<br /><br />Therefore I see nothing specious in calling a spade a spade.<br /><br />At least the Hebrews had a Biblical mandate to eliminate the 7 Canaanite Nations , which they never succeeded in accomplishing and the white Europeans who had no Biblical mandate.<br /><br /> They came they saw, they conquered mostly out of arrogance and avarice. They had the numbers and the technological superiority to succeed. So they did wholesale.<br /><br />Knish while I agree to some extent with your general postulate when it comes to defining exactly what your new vision or frontier needed to sustain American civilization, you fail IMO to reach definable conclusions as to what those new frontiers should be.<br /><br />I have made a study of the American Indian over the past two years and If you would like to have an in depth discussion on that subject I would love to participate.<br /><br />Specious argument? <br /><br />I would compare Arabic culture more favorably than western culture in many spheres for instance, hospitality, family loyalty and obedience to their parents and extended family heads. The willingness to support and defend those family groupings. Respect for the elderly and criminal behavior mostly dealt with according to precepts of Tanach etc.yamit33https://www.blogger.com/profile/04463759375229777469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-37462277305244816992010-03-09T22:22:22.290-05:002010-03-09T22:22:22.290-05:00I would say that the Arab Muslim ruled Middle East...I would say that the Arab Muslim ruled Middle East is not so much in need of civilizing, as in removing the power of the Arab Muslims over the entire region<br /><br />But that is certainly not genocide. And specious comparisons to Hitler are both incorrect and inappropriate.<br /><br />However I was not speaking of colonialism, which is a different thing than colonization. Colonization allows for a people to expand their horizons. Colonialism attempts to civilize another people, which usually ends with the colonialists either mixing in and degenerating, or departing. <br /><br />One cannot reinvigorate a people in that way,Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-34171759788658221622010-03-09T22:00:46.895-05:002010-03-09T22:00:46.895-05:00DP111 said...
2. It is currently populated by a b...DP111 said...<br /><br />2. It is currently populated by a bunch of people who are in dire need of civilising or<br />being replaced, as the north American Indians were. <br /><br />GENOCIDE!!! That's one method of civilizing. Never confuse technology with civilization. Values in the end are what defines us or at least should.<br /><br /><br />If you are a representative of what you call civilization, I side with those whom you wish to civilize.<br /><br />You and all the empire builders in history have a lot in common. <br /><br />Hitler and Stalin would have called you brother.yamit33https://www.blogger.com/profile/04463759375229777469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-10485246495247887382010-03-09T20:06:48.875-05:002010-03-09T20:06:48.875-05:00I agree with DP111I agree with DP111Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-44846137132248313122010-03-09T18:40:20.024-05:002010-03-09T18:40:20.024-05:00I like your final illustration being the starry sk...I like your final illustration being the starry sky over the ocean. I'm one of those who's always believed that the High Frontier in space is humanity's next and obvious direction.<br /><br />It is not only saddening but dangerous that other nations are moving ahead where America led for so long.Robert W. Fransonhttp://www.troynovant.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-25927546402951357722010-03-09T18:08:26.301-05:002010-03-09T18:08:26.301-05:00The US and Britain should have carved up the world...The US and Britain should have carved up the world into empires long ago and saved everyone a lot of trouble.Chana @ Lemon Lime Moonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11656854855385193867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-24342380350468668162010-03-09T18:03:41.864-05:002010-03-09T18:03:41.864-05:00SK wrote Such frontiers are possible, some require...SK wrote <i>Such frontiers are possible, some require technology, others imagination. But like most living things, America must grow or die. </i><br /><br />Thats a challenge. If it requires technology, and the frontier America seeks is a physical one, then the possibilities are <br /><br />1. Outer space and planetary settlement.<br /><br />2. The Deep sea frontier. <br /><br />OTH if we wish to still be on planet earth and on the surface, then America could try carving out an Empire. Greeks did it, Romans did it, and we British did it. Why not America? <br /><br />The ME would be a good place.<br /><br />1. The region has lots of oil<br /><br />2. It is currently populated by a bunch of people who are in dire need of civilising or <br />being replaced, as the north American Indians were. <br /><br />The ME is also a good place to start the development of technology that can be very useful in hot planets.<br /><br />Overall, this would be a good idea. The total defeat of the Arab world, and its defining ideology. It will bring peace to the planet as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-90705567266459067822010-03-09T10:49:57.376-05:002010-03-09T10:49:57.376-05:00Mikec
yes that's the natural outcome of centr...Mikec<br /><br />yes that's the natural outcome of centralization, an official or unofficial court, accompanied by feudalismDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-12551810236998687552010-03-09T10:49:01.928-05:002010-03-09T10:49:01.928-05:00There doesn't need to be an other to be conque...There doesn't need to be an other to be conquered, there does need to be a direction to move away from civilization and toward a new frontier.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-22026605395700662782010-03-09T10:28:43.122-05:002010-03-09T10:28:43.122-05:00This is almost saying that a healthy civilization ...This is almost saying that a healthy civilization defines itself by that which it isn't. Colonies do not make for a healthy society - viz. early 20th century Europe, so I'm not disagreeing with you by any means on that point. I'm just asking whether there always needs to be an acher, an other, to be conquered.redsneakzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03601491021519995930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-84711248866971355292010-03-09T07:38:23.766-05:002010-03-09T07:38:23.766-05:00I suspect that another outcome of centralization i...I suspect that another outcome of centralization is the two tier system of the elite (those who have influence) and the rest (those who do not).<br /><br />The 'haves' can then divide the loot (proceeds of corrupt taxation of the 'have nots') amongst themselves, spinning the laws and customs to line the pockets of their ilk in a never ending merry-go-round of quid pro quo spending, knowing that what goes around comes back around - a bit like a revolving door. <br /><br />So we get 'Obamacare' and 'cap and trade' which are both designed to put public money into private (elite) hands....Mikecnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-25342134725173490402010-03-09T05:21:17.528-05:002010-03-09T05:21:17.528-05:00You forgot the role of mostly European immigration...You forgot the role of mostly European immigration that largely fueled American westward expansion.<br /><br />Todays immigrants legal and illegal tend to be centered in Urban areas, creating enormous pressures for government expansion. <br /><br />The immigrants of old came with similar cultural and religious values. Including a work ethic that matched American needs and challenges.<br /><br />The immigrants of toady for the most part are of a different nature and are mostly self serving materialistic predators. They come to take but not to work and build.<br /><br />Tolerant societies always on the cusp of social experimentation, always fail even though they are as a rule excellent economic performers.<br /><br />Intolerant societies are more conservative and accept social and ideological changes usually after others have shown those reforms and changes beneficial and workable. They also tend to be poorer economic performers, but provide a safe and comfortable environment for their citizens.<br /><br />The line between tolerance and weakness is too fine for a state to dance.<br /><br />If Americas choices are between Tolerance(permissiveness) and intolerance. Or life and death as a nation my gut tells me they will choose Tolerance and death.yamit33https://www.blogger.com/profile/04463759375229777469noreply@blogger.com