tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post5088938958130379238..comments2024-03-28T13:47:08.047-04:00Comments on Daniel Greenfield / Sultan Knish Articles at DanielGreenfield.org : A Season for TreasonDaniel Greenfieldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-76119595788238348952013-07-05T00:17:14.099-04:002013-07-05T00:17:14.099-04:00Whether or not Snowden is a traitor is immaterial....Whether or not Snowden is a traitor is immaterial. By creating a monstrosity of a program that needed countless employees the government pretty much guaranteed that it would have questionable personalities with access to sensitive information. If just one of those employees can do irreparable damage you have a poorly designed system.<br /><br />Somehow this program does not seem to be realistically designed to find terrorists. It has other goals. The irony seems to be Snowden blew the whistle on a program destined to hire the Snowden's of the world. If it was designed to zoom in on terrorists and find actionable intelligence it would have been designed to better secure the intelligence that would be found.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-33432860549085652692013-07-03T09:49:19.166-04:002013-07-03T09:49:19.166-04:00And why respond to corruption by aiding the enemy?...And why respond to corruption by aiding the enemy?Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-27148837403556901412013-07-03T08:53:22.191-04:002013-07-03T08:53:22.191-04:00"AG said...
Workingstiff - You can blow ..."AG said...<br /><br /> Workingstiff - You can blow a whistle without giving every single last detail to the media for the whole world to see. That is the problem here. There are right ways and wrong ways to do these sort of things. He would be at home right now sitting comforatable had he chose to contact someone in Congress. Then they would have opened an investigation and offered him protection in the mean time. Then it could be controled, what information does and does not get exposed in the World Wide Media."<br /><br />AG, have you taken a hard good look at Congress lately? You would never seen a consensus or a quorum majority to support Snowden even if he had hard evidence found on the data he took to prove Obama was indeed born outside the US.<br />The Republican party is imploding upon itself, thanks to the likes of Boehner and McCain. Why would anyone seek sanctuary among the very system that is corrupted?<br />Workingstiffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704481541680166926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-30081273346830774672013-07-01T16:07:55.904-04:002013-07-01T16:07:55.904-04:00For anyone who thinks the US is up there with Nazi...For anyone who thinks the US is up there with Nazi Germany or the USSR then yes...Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-8031425375631141442013-07-01T13:17:19.506-04:002013-07-01T13:17:19.506-04:00Workingstiff - You can blow a whistle without givi...Workingstiff - You can blow a whistle without giving every single last detail to the media for the whole world to see. That is the problem here. There are right ways and wrong ways to do these sort of things. He would be at home right now sitting comforatable had he chose to contact someone in Congress. Then they would have opened an investigation and offered him protection in the mean time. Then it could be controled, what information does and does not get exposed in the World Wide Media. AGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-3737525058788559622013-07-01T13:14:28.840-04:002013-07-01T13:14:28.840-04:00What about the von Stauffenberg plotters and the W...What about the von Stauffenberg plotters and the White Rose group? Or the Soviet defectors like Krivitsky, Deryabin, Penkovsky and many others? By any rational and objective standard all of them were traitors, but also fully justified and ennobled by what they did. Loyalty is one of the greatest virtues, but not unthinking and absolute loyalty. Where does an honorable man and patriot draw the line. Manning committed his treason for the right to sodomy. Assange and Snowden for still uncertain reasons. <br />-RurikAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-64491274848417536382013-07-01T12:25:32.277-04:002013-07-01T12:25:32.277-04:00They laughed at Columbus. But they also laughed at...They laughed at Columbus. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-6831085893269948242013-07-01T12:13:47.408-04:002013-07-01T12:13:47.408-04:00I think 'Treason' is a dangerous word to t...I think 'Treason' is a dangerous word to throw around so cavalierly, but I agree that it's getting more and more difficult to define what Nationalism is. In any case, the Founders were all called Traitors as well, so Snowden is in good company. <br /><br />If American Citizens were better informed, it wouldn't be necessary for these types of disclosures, since that was the point, after all. Surely you're not trying to say that our Allies were unaware of Washington's spying? All the fake outrage is just cover. Nations have been spying on each other forever. <br /><br />All this does is raise awareness among the masses of the dangers inherent in the U.S. policies, internationalism among them. Personally, I would prefer to go back to the old fashioned sovereign country, and if this issue helps raise the narrative beyond that of eighth-graders, I'm all in. <br /><br />btw I have RT on right now, and the indignation is flowing like a river. As expected, of course. Oh, those ugly Americans. Bobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-30378898654838588072013-07-01T10:00:30.688-04:002013-07-01T10:00:30.688-04:00Comparing Snowden and Manning to George Washington...Comparing Snowden and Manning to George Washington and Benjamin Franklin is rather dubious at best.<br />Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-78361596984712281662013-07-01T08:30:06.801-04:002013-07-01T08:30:06.801-04:00"... who simmer with grudges and grievances, ..."... who simmer with grudges and grievances, who are rootless and dissatisfied."<br />Whooo.... for a second there I thought you WERE talking about Obama.<br />Great comparison.<br /><br />"If political office doesn't come with any national responsibility or accountability..."<br />Is that why the Founding Fathers required the extra qualification that a candidate for President be a natural born citizen, born of two citizen parents?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-89911220701515524752013-07-01T04:50:33.807-04:002013-07-01T04:50:33.807-04:00A funny issue of the Snowden revelations/treason i...A funny issue of the Snowden revelations/treason is what happened when it was revealed that even the European community leadership had been tapped by the NSA. They where so offended, how did America dare to be so insolent as to spy on the elite, Europe would demand an explanation! This same leadership cared not a hoot however about wether their European citizens have been tapped. mindRiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12160934421830568737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-9864703670797081142013-07-01T02:45:28.314-04:002013-07-01T02:45:28.314-04:00Snowden is no Ellsberg. The Pentagon Papers only ...Snowden is no Ellsberg. The Pentagon Papers only revealed, after the fact, that the top government and military officials knew the Viet Nam war was unwinnable, while telling us the "light at the end of the tunnel" was coming into view. The Pentagon Papers did not disclose military secrets, diplomatic secrets, our spying on other countries, and who knows what else Snowden gave to Glenn Greenwald to spill to the world. <br />JerryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-16131675571347759912013-07-01T00:20:11.850-04:002013-07-01T00:20:11.850-04:00Excellent article.
Excellent article.<br />Leahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00338022892863788418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-36613787556637457382013-07-01T00:17:28.719-04:002013-07-01T00:17:28.719-04:00I think the accusation of treason is misplaced. In...I think the accusation of treason is misplaced. In the United States, citizens have the obligation to honor and uphold the Constitution but owe no allegiance to the servant government. Treason is narrowly defined as giving aid and comfort to the enemy when the country is at war. Snowden has not revealed any secrets that we did not already know, rather he made us look at the unpleasant fact that our CEO and his employees have been spying on us, and violating the Fourth Amendment. So I guess if he is called a traitor that makes us the enemy, and indicates another thing we already know. Not content to violate our rights and break the covenant that is our Constitution, this government is at war with us. <br /><br />In this case, the treason broadly defined is that of our servant government servants' violation of their oaths to protect and defend the Constitution against ALL enemies. Seems like Snowden, whatever his real faults--and this government is quite capable of using the information collected about any one of us to manufacture guilt--has actually defended us against the oath-breakers. <br /><br />I'm still mindful that the Republicans calling Snowden a traitor are for the most part progressives, too ,and are quite eager to sell us all into slavery for the sake of a few more crumbs of power. <br /><br />I am also remembering that the founders of this country, all imperfect men, were called traitors by the government they revolted against. Whatever the motives of a man like Snowden, he seems downright reasonable alongside Obama and his minions, and alongside the likes of Boehner, McCain and Graham. None of them are the least bit interested in my rights nor my Liberty. Elisheva Hannah Levinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16061377724926154037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-12392981907364760812013-06-30T23:48:08.906-04:002013-06-30T23:48:08.906-04:00Birds of a feather. Great article as always.Birds of a feather. Great article as always.Chana @ Lemon Lime Moonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11656854855385193867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-816433861998791552013-06-30T21:35:49.823-04:002013-06-30T21:35:49.823-04:00Snowden didn't expose anything that we couldn&...Snowden didn't expose anything that we couldn't have predicted was happening anyway.<br /><br />KeliataAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-85197718316696047752013-06-30T19:44:00.575-04:002013-06-30T19:44:00.575-04:00I agree that this is one of your best. I keep hav...I agree that this is one of your best. I keep having to remember to breathe after each devastating point you make. The continuity of treason top to bottom, the imperatives of nation-building, and more...but I want to email you later with another idea about why this has all happened...a notion of the one driver pushing all these horrors on America.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-21218245762561258882013-06-30T18:52:14.497-04:002013-06-30T18:52:14.497-04:00The problem with the modern right, and the GOP by ...The problem with the modern right, and the GOP by extension is that they are so concerned with stopping Obama at all costs that there is nothing they willingly give up.<br /><br />Instead of realizing that some things will need sacrificed so that the larger goals can survive. Instead of being seen as willing to give and take, the GOP is only seen as standing in the way.<br /><br />They'll latch on to anything to see Obama go, but they won't stick with anything.<br /><br />People like Rand Paul have long been against the strain of conservatism we saw during the Bush years. Let them stick to that. They can be believed. A lot of Republicans are way more flighty, and only support Rand Paul because it's something they can use to differentiate themselves from Obama.Inane Ramblernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-36932361519824951592013-06-30T17:59:16.793-04:002013-06-30T17:59:16.793-04:00Gotta disagree with you on this one.
How can you ...Gotta disagree with you on this one.<br /><br />How can you on one hand criticize a government that has run amuck trashing our individual liberties, getting us dragged into no win-wars that support puppet dictators like Karzai, bring our troops home in body bags, with broken limbs and minds, create sanctioned molesters like the TSA and ninja mall cops like the DHS, and then call Snowden and Manning traitors for trying to show us what the power-mad idiots are doing behind the curtian? <br /><br />What part of government can we trust, when the whole system is rotten through, which gives you your plentiful raw material for justifiable criticism in your articles? Would you not want those in the system to stand up and blow the whistle, or demand for them to just "Obey orders" out of patriotic duty? <br /><br />You write of these men being traitors exposing government materiel that has yet proven to be any security risk to our nation. Daniel Ellsberg revealed in 1972 with the Pentagon Papers how our government knew, KNEW they could not win the war in Vietnam as early as 1967, but still sent our troops in to die in a no-win war strategy to keep political face.<br /><br />As long as our government keeps sending our troops to fight and occupy other nations as mere pawns to die for flawed agendas, I welcome men like Manning and Snowden and others that reveal the duplicity of the rear echelon chicken hawks that send our troops in harms way knowing that they have no chance for victory.Workingstiffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704481541680166926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-54960489514106626692013-06-30T16:10:55.243-04:002013-06-30T16:10:55.243-04:00I don't think its debatable. Snowden is a trai...I don't think its debatable. Snowden is a traitor, end of story. This isn't complex. Opposition to Obama should not therefore mean conservative support for Snowden. But too many on the right are mindlessly defending him. LELhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14973177230144550659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-55550824822364762202013-06-30T15:24:20.051-04:002013-06-30T15:24:20.051-04:00Great post. Really puts the Snowdens/Mannings/Ass...Great post. Really puts the Snowdens/Mannings/Assanges issues together and in perspective. <br />JerryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-27983416756230283622013-06-30T15:21:52.167-04:002013-06-30T15:21:52.167-04:00generally a good article, but you didn't addre...generally a good article, but you didn't address why I should have a problem with Snowden. Mostly I see people on one side in favor of him, because they simply do not like the idea of the government having too much power (information is power) over their lives. That makes sense becuase the concept is rooted in the nature of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, that is, the limitation of government power.<br /><br />However on the side of the issue that I suspect you are on, I don't hear much other than that he is a "traitor" (maybe) who "revealed important secrets" (to who? Us?). <br /><br />The real question is this - is this really necesary to spy on the people? Further, even if it makes us safer from terrorists, does it not put us in the worse danger of an overpowerful government?<br /><br />It could be Snowden is:<br /><br />a) A traitor<br />b) A hero<br />c) A loon<br />D) A government plant to cover up much worse shenanigans.<br /><br />But my point is, thats actually irrelevant. What is relevent is the following<br /><br />1) Is this information accurate?<br /><br />2) Do we even have the ability to practically determine that? That is, can we even verify we are being told the truth on this issue?<br /><br />3) Is this OK?<br /><br />4) Given that this is clearly a step up from the Patriot Act which was supposed to be the limit of this kind of Orwellian monitoring, who says it just isn't going to get even worse?<br /><br /><br />These are the real issues. And that discussion is being sidetracked by whether Snowden is a good or a bad boy.Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05349024830056532674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-20254199347313695342013-06-30T14:07:16.479-04:002013-06-30T14:07:16.479-04:00Daniel, one of your best commentaries.
We do see...Daniel, one of your best commentaries.<br /> <br />We do seem to be in a "post" world. After eliminating God, morality, ethics, the natural family unit, borders, the rule of law, the true intent of the Constitution, our real history, the truth about humanity and nature, and on and on, what is left for us? How do we "go forward" after losing everything we are, and denying everything that matters?<br /><br />ElaineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com