tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post4541901197892544331..comments2024-03-28T13:47:08.047-04:00Comments on Daniel Greenfield / Sultan Knish Articles at DanielGreenfield.org : The Jewish and Post-Jewish VoteDaniel Greenfieldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-32351412166362816212012-10-30T01:44:16.614-04:002012-10-30T01:44:16.614-04:00Bravo dodger. My sentiments exactly. The liberal ...Bravo dodger. My sentiments exactly. The liberal Jew and liberal American have both been poisoned by an overwhelming sense of guilt Chicagosnydernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-13114184573541705372012-10-28T20:06:57.132-04:002012-10-28T20:06:57.132-04:00Bagels are made like soft pretzels.
You boil the f...Bagels are made like soft pretzels.<br />You boil the formed dough in water with baking soda until they rise to the surface, then they are baked.Chana @ Lemon Lime Moonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11656854855385193867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-52097402412707862322012-10-28T14:52:40.178-04:002012-10-28T14:52:40.178-04:00I had come to regard the expenditure of hope for a...I had come to regard the expenditure of hope for a change in the suicidal Jewish political custom as being pointless, and even delusional. After a century or more, we must make distinctions or volunteer to be the fool. Your blog has raised my expectations once again. Still, I will await events to prove you right. May it be so. james wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06423091782308888563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-11395163382723364872012-10-28T02:23:47.135-04:002012-10-28T02:23:47.135-04:00Has anyone explained about the bagel?
To make bag...Has anyone explained about the bagel?<br /><br />To make bagels, you take a high gluten yeast dough, form it into rings, let them rise, and then drop the rings of dough into boiling water. This gets rid of some of the starch and increases the proportion of gluten. That is why bagels are so tough and chewy. Only after they are boiled are they baked. <br /><br />However, Einstein's bagels are not made that way. They are more like ring-shaped challah than like real bagels. They are popular because real bagels are an an acquired taste. People accustomed to ordinary supermarket white bread want their bread products soft and cakelilke, and Einstein's bagels compromise with that preference. <br /><br />Perhaps the point was that, just as Einstein's bagels have assimilated and thereby lost their true bagel quality, the second wave of Jewish immigrants lost their authentic Jewish quality.<br /><br />Speaking as one born in Texas, just before Pearl Harbor, to two parents each arrived as immigrants from Eastern Europe, I regard the proper Jewish position on abortion to be that the government should stay out of it. An orthodox Jewish woman would ask her rabbi whether her situation warranted an abortion and would behave accordingly. If her rabbi said (as occasionally does occur) that the situation required an abortion, to preserve the life of the mother for example, then the government is interfering with freedom of religion if it forbids it. And if the rabbi says the abortion is not warranted, and the mother wants to keep her baby, the government is also interfering if it were to require to abortion, which it unfortunately is all too apt to do if the mother is anything other than a white Protestant. I hear all too often of Latino women who go in for pregnancy care and are aborted and sterilized without their knowledge and consent. <br /><br />The proper policy of the government should be to allow (but not require) each pregnant woman to consult her OWN religious authorities as to when and whether she needs an abortion, or needs to carry her child to term. My own rabbi would insist that if the unborn threatens the life of the mother, the mother's life must be preserved at all costs. She is very likely the mother of other children who need their mother more than they need a new sibling. <br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-80087411359564562162012-10-27T23:51:08.527-04:002012-10-27T23:51:08.527-04:00we may unfortunately lose between a third and a qu...we may unfortunately lose between a third and a quarter of MODaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-33048916028561991022012-10-27T20:24:26.956-04:002012-10-27T20:24:26.956-04:00dittos from this litvak...i have seen with my own ...dittos from this litvak...i have seen with my own eyes the slow but sure, often tragic, meltdown of the liberal Jewish black hole...as soon as they blink, they're gone (even those still living). i have been eyeing this tendency in some communities in the frum world as well, among weak-minded members who ultimately look to goyim for their "culture." you can detect the breakdown by their use of terms such as "left" and "right" with regard to kehilos/rebbeim.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-54571085359468084352012-10-27T19:47:22.331-04:002012-10-27T19:47:22.331-04:00P.S. Has anyone received this article in their ema...P.S. Has anyone received this article in their email list>?<br /><br />Rita, no. Green fields is one of the more common German/Jewish last names around. A lot of people chose it at some point.<br /><br />tpaull, indeed<br /><br />Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-25104648599314345222012-10-27T16:04:59.672-04:002012-10-27T16:04:59.672-04:00(COMMENTS PART 3)
But back to Anonymous: Like most...(COMMENTS PART 3)<br />But back to Anonymous: Like most (il)liberals he gets his most of his info and 'big ideas' from the corrupt Media Party, where facts and truth don't matter. I would be willing to bet that he knows little or nothing about Alinsky, Cloward-Piven, knows not the identity or ideas of Obama's unelected Czars, know nothing of Rashid Khalidi, etc. He asks how a traditional Jew can support Republicans who 'want to dictate morality from an 'evangelical Christian pulpit'? Apart from the obvious bigotry of the remark, he ignores the fact that the left and Obama want to dictate (im)morality, in the form of restricted abortion including live birth abortion (ie killing babies), suppression of religious expression in public, particularly Christianity, but special status for Islam (i.e. he views criticism of Islam as 'hate speech'), stomping on 2nd Amendment rights, etc. etc. I ask, how can any traditional Jew vote for a man who has shown such contempt for Israel and Netanyahu, who gets advice on the ME from Rashid Khalidi, who's spiritual counselor was Jeremiah Wright, who shows such clear bias toward Muslims, who 'apologized' to the Muslim world, who converted NASA into a Muslim outreach agency, who didn't protect his own Ambassador and Consulate in Libya ("I have Israel's back" - yeah, sure!), and on and on. He has no answer!<br /><br />Keep up the great work Daniel. There will always be trolls like 'Anon' to attack and insult you. Just know that you are right and have a lot of support from people who are older and with 'broader viewpoint'. The Anons of this world have good intentions (as in 'the road to hell is paved with....') but they are programmed and deluded. Still, they do get the Comments conversation going!<br />tpaullnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-79510917580957606352012-10-27T16:03:34.532-04:002012-10-27T16:03:34.532-04:00(COMMENTS PART 2)
During a long career, I worked ...(COMMENTS PART 2)<br /><br />During a long career, I worked at very high level, in the world of high tech, business, academia, private sector, government, the cultural industries. I've started several businesses, and have traveled widely around the world. With deepening experience and understanding, my world view changed, from the naive idealism and seductive lure of leftist thought to a more balanced, mature and workable world view, which corresponds much more closely with conservative ideas. Meanwhile, the Democratic party has moved inexorably to the left, to the current dangerous extremist positions of the Obama regime. I have been studying Obama closely right from the moment I heard that he was a disciple of Alinsky and a friend of Bill Ayres. Obama is a master of Alinsky philosophy techniques, the Cloward-Piven strategy, a master of deception, a well trained community organizer (rabble rouser), a competent teleprompter reader and a perpetual campaigner, but a lazy incompetent fraud and a disaster as President. He has to go!tpaullnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-6872756365277908932012-10-27T16:02:18.368-04:002012-10-27T16:02:18.368-04:00(COMMENTS PART 1)
Thanks Daniel, for another very...(COMMENTS PART 1)<br /><br />Thanks Daniel, for another very insightful and, to me, optimistic article. Optimistic in the sense that you've revealed that the political leanings of American Jews is moving away from the Democratic party. A move in the right direction! This topic has certainly struck a nerve as its generated more comments than usual.<br /><br />I wanted to respond to some of the comments by the first 'Anonymous', as many others have already done. His remarks were condescending and ill-informed, and essentially parroting the typical (il)liberal world view as expressed regularly in 'Media Matters' or 'Move On' talking points. He can only see the world through these distorted filters and cannot comprehend that a credible but different world view can exist. So, he calls you young and narrow-viewed.<br /><br />Well, I am old and broad-viewed. I am a very low serial number baby boomer, born just after WWII, and now a 'senior citizen'. My grandparents were Second Wave immigrants and refugees from the pogroms in Eastern Europe in the early part of the 20th c. We were raised in the Orthodox Jewish tradition. My parents, who were themselves not well educated, devoted themselves to the goal of educating their children. I went to Hebrew schools and have a deep knowledge of Torah and Talmud, as well as several E.E. degrees. While never rejecting Judaism, but in order to illuminate Judaic wisdom teachings, I spent over 40 years studying western and eastern philosophy, psychology, and other religious traditions, in particular Tibetan Buddhism, in which I have extensive teachings from many great Tibetan teachers. My wife is Christian, raised by two Salvation Army ministers, whose lives were devoted to helping the sick and the poor, mostly in Third World countries.<br /><br />I consider myself quite knowledgeable about at least 3 major religions, and have familiarity as well with several others, including Islam and Hinduism. As well, as a young graduate student in Seattle, during the late 60's, I became somewhat active in the anti-war movement, and very well versed in leftist political thought and rhetoric. In those days, Alinsky and Chomsky were all the rage, SDS, Black Panthers, CORE, and various Liberation Fronts were getting daily attention in the underground press. Bill Ayres and Bernardine Dohrn were well known agitators. One of the dudes I 'palled around' with was Michael Lerner, head of the Seattle Liberation Front. Michael was indicted for stirring up a riot in which government buildings were trashed, and was eventually found guilty and sentenced to serve a number of months in prison. He later re-emerged and re-invented himself in the guise of 'Rabbi' Michael Lerner, of the New Age Jewish Renewal movement (cult?, and founded the magazine Tikkun and website Tikkun.org, a favourite haunt of all the blame America First, Israel bashing, J-Streeters, neo-feminists, marxists, and various other splinter ideologues who find a common cause on the outer fringes of the far left, where facts don't count, only ideology. They are wolves in sheep clothing, Anonymous would feel right at home there.<br />tpaullnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-42727059755546580942012-10-27T00:28:58.443-04:002012-10-27T00:28:58.443-04:00Thanks for this article. It goes a long way toward...Thanks for this article. It goes a long way towards explaining what I (German born, catholic raised and politically conservative)considered as an inexplicable tendancy to mass suicide/homicide by those anti semites who call themselves Jews, eg those demonisers of Israel who belong to the Judenhass promoting BDS mob. I hope that you are right in suggesting that this "wave" is on the way out, although - looking around the net and at media like BBC, ABC & SBS (in Australia) etc. I cannot completely share your optimism.<br /><br />Psst, is Adam your brother?Ritahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01905667628853229999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-64321919864500394862012-10-26T12:02:11.739-04:002012-10-26T12:02:11.739-04:00Adam, while those are good points, replacement the...Adam, while those are good points, replacement theology doesn't necessarily indicate unfriendliness and its absence doesn't always indicate friendliness. There's a danger in oversimplifying this or trying to classify Christians by theology which is far more complicated than Jewish theology and ignores the human factor.<br /><br />Churchill, We all have our own history and that shapes who we are. That's my larger point. People are more than theology. <br /><br />A sizable number of American Christians who support Israel have very little experience with Jews.<br /><br />I have no idea how bagels are made, so it'll have to be someone else. Anything more complicated than can be done by a bread machine is out of my league.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-15511768640089435552012-10-26T11:49:32.125-04:002012-10-26T11:49:32.125-04:00Adam,
Curiously, in all that I've read, I'...Adam,<br /><br />Curiously, in all that I've read, I've gained the impression that Southern (US) Christians - the Evangelical variety - are the most supportive. You will know better, so I stand to be corrected.<br /><br />Likewise, I've never detected any hostility from Catholics. Again, your experience may be different.<br /><br />Daniel, I take your point. My best fiend at school was Jewish and I used regularly to spend Friday evenings at his house since only gentiles could do the travelling. I grew to like the various culinary offerings on the table and the observance of the candles (I seem to remember Menorah candles but it may have been a different festival), so maybe I'm a little romantic about these things.<br /><br />churchill<br /><br />P.S. No-one has enlightened me about the bagel thing yet. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-20208186738138834862012-10-26T11:09:56.406-04:002012-10-26T11:09:56.406-04:00"Jewish supporter" and "Anonymous&q..."Jewish supporter" and "Anonymous" two up. Yes, Christians and Jews to those who are involved and informed are strong allies. As Daniel points out though just as there are different sects of Jews whose opinions don't always align, there are different sects of Christians as well. Southern Christians and Catholics do not tend to be big fans. <br /><br />There are two Theological factions this stems from. Replacement Theology and Continuation Theology. Most Christian (non Catholic) sects point to Jesus being raised Jewish (he never converted or denounced his Judaism) showing a continuation of Judaism. While some believe Christianity replaced Judaisim. This is also the Theology suscribed to by Islam. Dr Mark Drurie is one of the most profound investigators I know of for this contrast. http://www.markdurie.com/<br /><br />If you subscribe to Continuation Theology I would reccomend the following activist groups;<br /><br /><br />The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews<br /><br />or <br /><br />Christians and Jews United for Israel<br /><br />Both noble groups who need as much help as they can get to strengthen the relationship.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14570178172697978366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-50916461379844681122012-10-26T10:45:12.786-04:002012-10-26T10:45:12.786-04:00mindRider, I don't know. I suspect from a thir...mindRider, I don't know. I suspect from a third to half.<br /><br />Jewish supporter, most analysis are colored by beliefs and objectives, mine is no different than that. But due to the amount of 'engagement' with the Jewish question, by Jews and non-Jews, an objective analysis is going to be nearly impossible.<br /><br />churchill, not to minimize what you're saying, but some Christians. Christians are not a single group, just as Jews are not a single group.<br /><br />Anonymous, JINO is a useful definition. <br /><br />Their god though is the progressive ideology, their values are building a progressive kingdom of heaven on earth, because they don't believe in one in heaven and their morality is driven by that same perspective.<br /><br />Essentially this is liberal theology, and not just limited to Jews.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-51356200119377840622012-10-26T10:28:10.278-04:002012-10-26T10:28:10.278-04:00A while ago somewhere in the internet I read about...A while ago somewhere in the internet I read about JINO's (Jews in Name Only),a very accurate term that defines the majority of secular American Jews today, which in turn (still but not for much too long) account for the majority of US Jews. The article talked about JINO's religion being liberalism, not Judaism. About their god being the dollar, not the Almighty. About their values being self-indulgence and instant retribution, not the precepts laid down in the Torah. About their morality giving way to consumerism. About education being just the means to achieve wealth or status, rather than a goal.<br /><br />That's how Jews can have a Noam Chomsky or a Wasserman-Schultz or a Henry Kissinger amongst their ranks. But these should actually be tagged as JINOS, and then the proper perspective is achieved.<br /><br />Although the same would apply to a big chunk of goyim as well, Jews are still expected to be on a higher standard. But then, modern American Jews have not made it to that standard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-13274349653845647182012-10-26T09:18:05.077-04:002012-10-26T09:18:05.077-04:00*** As the anonymous blogger above shows, this oft...*** As the anonymous blogger above shows, this often leads Jews to overlook sources of natural allies.***<br /><br />I think this is telling. Jews may already know this but it bears repeating: Christians are very fond of Jews. As Adam Greenfield said above, our religions are branches of the same tree.<br /><br />Affection may not be the thing you're looking for, and I hope it doesn't sound patronizing, but don't dismiss it.<br /><br />Moses gave us our law and Christians and Jews try to obey it. Psalm 23 is one of the poetic glories of The King James Bible:<br /><br />"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;"<br /><br />Would anyone on this blog doubt that, united against our common enemy, Islam is as nothing.<br /><br />churchillAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-13955820480686811842012-10-26T08:39:55.729-04:002012-10-26T08:39:55.729-04:00Daniel, I'm not sure that your analysis of the...Daniel, I'm not sure that your analysis of the Jewish community, or Jewish characteristics/ politics features among your best work. I have recently pursued an interest in Jewish history by reading books written about and by Jews, and by following Jewish blogs. What strikes me is how little penetrating self-analysis is carried out by Jewish intellectuals. It is far easier to find material by Jews critiquing outside communities, than to see that same level of self-reflection. <br /><br />Your community would benefit from more open discussion. Too often politics stands in for a sense of Jewish identity or "Jewish interests". As the anonymous blogger above shows, this often leads Jews to overlook sources of natural allies. It also causes them to often see themselves only as the "other" and to embrace politics that reflect this identity.Jewish supporternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-84207994343673491212012-10-26T07:38:53.369-04:002012-10-26T07:38:53.369-04:00My comment was incomplete. The government takes t...My comment was incomplete. The government takes the money not only from those who earn but also, by borrowing, from our children. When the government prints money it takes money from everyone, rich and poor by inflating it. Likewise our children who have to pay back the debt will be rich and poor. Also we will have to start paying back the debt before our children do. So when anonymous is upset about how the Republicans take money from the poor, he should be upset how the Democrats take money from the poor and from all of us.mephilopalousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-7218452012896628512012-10-26T02:25:45.038-04:002012-10-26T02:25:45.038-04:00Daniel, what percentage of your readers is Jewish,...Daniel, what percentage of your readers is Jewish, any idea? As I read the comments, not only on this article I figure very high, probably because in general the percentage of intellectually engaged lists large numbers of Jews, not that this matters much but of course we all have a tendency to prefer to be preached to by our own church.mindRiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12160934421830568737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-69093151105856087152012-10-26T01:25:01.767-04:002012-10-26T01:25:01.767-04:00Yes it's not just Jews. A lot of it applies to...Yes it's not just Jews. A lot of it applies to Catholic immigrants who arrived in a similar time frame.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-28285943851921938092012-10-26T01:04:29.403-04:002012-10-26T01:04:29.403-04:00Thank you Daniel for explaining something that had...Thank you Daniel for explaining something that had me puzzled for a long time. At the same time, you really described my father, whose parents came over on the spaghetti boat in that same time frame as the Ashkenazi Jews. He was nominally Catholic, but was totally enamored with liberal democrats. Now I can see why. It took me a long time to find out the hard way that the so-called liberalism carried to the ultimate conclusion was Stalinism. <br />By the way, the liberal wealth redistribution plans are simply vote buying gimmicks. The illegal alien amnesty is another vote-buying gimmick. Buy enough votes, and there will be only one party. The Republicans need to get off the Bush/McCain amnesty kick as it will backfire, as the amnestees will vote for the party giving away the most vote-buying gimmicks. But I digress. <br />Also for the anonymous #1, the UK, NZ, and Australia have socialized medicine of one form or another. There is a parallel system in each for people that can afford US style health insurance and can go to private healthcare. These 3 countries are in the middle of adopting US style healthcare innovations to make the socialized system function. Me Againnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-25809977758492206462012-10-25T22:20:39.071-04:002012-10-25T22:20:39.071-04:00Quoting Mr. Greenfield: "Anon, they did vote ...Quoting Mr. Greenfield: "Anon, they did vote for Hitler. His name was FDR"<br /> The post is pretty decent, but when you compare FDR to Hitler you are going way over the edge. You also belittle the horrors done by Hitler when you allow yourself to do this sort of thing.George Brighlingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-64736783225431826792012-10-25T18:56:39.801-04:002012-10-25T18:56:39.801-04:00more to the point that money doesn't go to the...more to the point that money doesn't go to the poor, it goes to the government Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-63255885719264164782012-10-25T18:12:05.325-04:002012-10-25T18:12:05.325-04:00Anonymous asked How can a true traditional Jew sup...Anonymous asked How can a true traditional Jew support a Republican party that wants to take from the poor and give to the rich. That is an inversion of the fact that Democrats want to take more and more from wage earners to give to those who don't earn or who earn less. That is stealing. Stealing is against Jewish ethics. In fact one of the ten commandments is thou shalt not steal. Jewish law does require charity be given to the poor. The Torah commands us to give 10 percent of our earnings to people in need, based on Leviticus 25:35 and Deut. 15:7-8. This is called Ma'aser, literally "one tenth". That is much less than is stolen by the government from the wealthy and even the middle class. mephilopalousnoreply@blogger.com