tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post597932661567732957..comments2024-03-29T11:05:38.781-04:00Comments on Daniel Greenfield / Sultan Knish Articles at DanielGreenfield.org : The Virtue of Being ModerateDaniel Greenfieldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-78197523336400233582010-11-20T13:51:17.715-05:002010-11-20T13:51:17.715-05:00Daniel,
Just wanted you to know I've used some...Daniel,<br />Just wanted you to know I've used some of the 'educated replies' you got here as a basis for an article concerning Moderates in Patriot's Corner.<br />I think they made a nice sample group of the self-righteous, not-really-so-moderate crowd - especially the Klingon guy.HermitLionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01955642756387705257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-21607632644362960862009-02-21T21:00:00.000-05:002009-02-21T21:00:00.000-05:00except everyone doesn't, so your hypothetical utop...except everyone doesn't, so your hypothetical utopian world doesn't actually exist, you knowDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-87284468923643197452009-02-21T14:58:00.000-05:002009-02-21T14:58:00.000-05:00Being moderate means that you respect people who h...Being moderate means that you respect people who have different viewpoints. Opinions are like...well, you know the rest. If everyone cared enough to consider others and tried to help everyone live together, wouldn't the world be a nicer place?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-15821758835163639682009-02-07T19:55:00.000-05:002009-02-07T19:55:00.000-05:00Matt, you're making an either or assumption. Moder...Matt, you're making an either or assumption. Moderation for the sake of being moderate is still ignorant, and passive ignorance can be just as destructive as active ignorance. More to the point, moderation for the sake of being moderate is not passive in terms of its expression, but only in its intellectual timidity. Such people can be both loud and ignorant as well.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-24936036694035309452009-02-07T19:06:00.000-05:002009-02-07T19:06:00.000-05:00@Anonymous, I absolutely agree - the catholic chur...@Anonymous, I absolutely agree - the catholic church is not the only oppressive judeo-christian religion out there. My point was to counter the idea that these j-c religions were somehow free of the archaic oppression that is said to be endemic of islam and the like. <BR/><BR/>@Sultan, it seems that this idea of moderation you're attacking has given way to cowardice stemming from either ignorance or a lack of commitment. While we should all wish for an increase in education of those whose ignorance leads them to fence-sit, surely this is not as much of a bane upon society as a group of the ignorant who loudly express their uneducated point of view. Maybe your quiet moderates should be preferred to those who advocate poorly researched viewpoints much louder? Surely peaceful placid societal inertia is preferable to a world of ignorant warmongering? If not then I guess this is the root of our disagreement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-31122578732525922762009-02-04T15:26:00.000-05:002009-02-04T15:26:00.000-05:00Anonymous, a moderate's ability to empathize with ...Anonymous, a moderate's ability to empathize with his enemy is more commonly known as Stockholm Syndrome.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-63286683532974707812009-02-04T15:25:00.000-05:002009-02-04T15:25:00.000-05:00Sean, you've made a number of false assumptions, i...Sean, you've made a number of false assumptions, including the belief that moderates are necessarily in the majority, rather than reflecting a view that is safe and politically mainstream.<BR/><BR/>There's nothing wrong with listening to all sides, but at some point you do have to make up your mind, and that rarely means taking an equidistant position from all sides to minimize controversy.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-56648741257884328702009-02-04T15:21:00.000-05:002009-02-04T15:21:00.000-05:00Abe, moderates have no problem infringing on the r...Abe, moderates have no problem infringing on the rights of others. In fact they tend to be a major source of regulatory activity.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-6427791334635135732009-02-04T15:11:00.000-05:002009-02-04T15:11:00.000-05:00You're right, of course. You're always right. So i...You're right, of course. You're always right. So is the other guy. He's right too. He's always right. Those damned moderates just want to minimize the blood spillage, but that would be a betrayal of principles. If you KNOW you're right, you must FIGHT! Right? All sarcasm aside though, your view on moderates is simply an expression of frustration with people who you wish would join your side. You'd even prefer they would join the other side, instead of being wimpy, compromising appeasers. You remind me of a Klingon. All you are interested in is the battle (even if you lose, you would still have more respect for your opponent than for a peacemaker). I submit that a moderate is someone who has evolved the ability to empathise with his enemy. You would say that no enemy deserves any empathy. And, of course, you're right. You're always right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-65837594206599278392009-02-04T12:13:00.000-05:002009-02-04T12:13:00.000-05:00Its interesting that very few got what the post wa...Its interesting that very few got what the post was saying and many actually took their view to "extremes".<BR/>Some took it personally which is also interesting.<BR/><BR/>It shows that people read into things through their own filter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-53497246099947694082009-02-04T12:09:00.000-05:002009-02-04T12:09:00.000-05:00Perhaps you don't fully understand your argument, ...Perhaps you don't fully understand your argument, you have essentially stated that taking into account multiple view points, ideas, and sources of information to make up your own mind on both specific situations and general beliefs while disagreeing with people who hold minority views (if you hold an extreme position, by definition you are in the minority, which is not to say that holding a minority position automatically makes you incorrect.) is a bad thing. I applaud your closed minded view of the world and congratulate you on your assumption that anyone who doesn't hold extreme views therefore doesn't firmly believe in their opinions. I hope your ad hominem attack against your concept of what a "moderate" is makes you happy, just as my return salvo at the least makes me smile. I will close by thanking you for being a mouth piece for the wonderful notion that the person who yells the loudest is always right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-56100886916459116182009-02-04T11:13:00.000-05:002009-02-04T11:13:00.000-05:00Is Ed a joke?Is Ed a joke?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-1384311598463866762009-02-04T11:11:00.000-05:002009-02-04T11:11:00.000-05:00Moderation is having something but not too much of...Moderation is having something but not too much of it. A moderate political view is a view that has principles, but does not push these to the point of infringing upon the rights of others. <BR/><BR/>If a moderate believes that we have a problem with unemployment. He will speak with both sides to develop an amicable solution. In many cases, it is the moderates' drive to solve the issue above all else (political issues and ideologies) that allows the issue to be resolved. <BR/><BR/>If both sides cannot come to a (somewhat) mutual accord, then problems will not be solved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-78394877549582396282009-02-04T11:05:00.000-05:002009-02-04T11:05:00.000-05:00Genderized oppression of the CATHOLIC church?As op...Genderized oppression of the CATHOLIC church?<BR/>As opposed to Judaism or Baptists or Churches of God or Churches of Christ or the Pentecostals who force women to cover their heads like pariah Dhimmis? Who say women should be quiet?<BR/>Oh get a life Aussie boy.<BR/><BR/>Having said that they are hardly atrocities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-25196689389007880462009-02-04T10:17:00.000-05:002009-02-04T10:17:00.000-05:00BNP your argument cruel and unfair because the rea...BNP your argument cruel and unfair because the real problem lies with all religion which is at the heart of all mankind's problems. I believe that eradication of religion will remove all the divisions among men...therein lies the solution!Belsleezohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09028710100627479598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-79417265356015349752009-02-04T10:07:00.000-05:002009-02-04T10:07:00.000-05:00Can there ever be an extremist moderate?Just askin...Can there ever be an extremist moderate?<BR/><BR/>Just asking...Teteahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444308996739936575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-90023721536798633642009-02-04T09:57:00.000-05:002009-02-04T09:57:00.000-05:00Matt and Bryce, where did I say that constant extr...Matt and Bryce, where did I say that constant extremism was the ideal?<BR/><BR/>RickJr, the kind of moderation I'm talking about suffers from having no confidence in his own views and that lack of confidence easily gives way in contact with an opposing view.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-38165600400517652042009-02-04T09:30:00.000-05:002009-02-04T09:30:00.000-05:00Being moderate means that you understand that you ...Being moderate means that you understand that you do not have all of the answers and that someone on the other side might have some good ideas as well.<BR/><BR/>The world is generally not black and white. Living as if it is won't help find the real answers that everyone can live with. Sharing information is the only way to reach that.<BR/><BR/><BR/>In a world of perfect information, there would be no moderates or extremists. Everyone would (or should) just be right.Rickjr82https://www.blogger.com/profile/01851145645646187042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-83835370751356747202009-02-04T07:15:00.000-05:002009-02-04T07:15:00.000-05:00Hmm, i think you might be onto something here!RTww...Hmm, i think you might be onto something here!<BR/><BR/>RT<BR/>www.real-privacy.us.tcHarold Fowlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08018983019271676117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-91058268590016472652009-02-04T07:12:00.000-05:002009-02-04T07:12:00.000-05:00Hey Sultan Knish, maybe you should define the crit...Hey Sultan Knish, maybe you should define the criteria for being extreme. I'm trying, but I just don't think I'm extreme enough for you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12348545900967727881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-8312859700660214232009-02-04T05:32:00.000-05:002009-02-04T05:32:00.000-05:00Firstly, @SultanKnish let us try not to confuse mo...Firstly, @SultanKnish let us try not to confuse moderation with ignorance - while ignorance demonstrates an inability to wrestle with the ideas of the day, moderation is often a symptom of a balanced and empathetic weighing up of both sides of an issue. This may lead to extremism, but more often than not it leads to balance.<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, a society of extremists would lead to little more than constant war - while extremists may make the revolutions, it is the moderates who organise the ceasefires, build lasting democracies and rule fairly and equitably.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, to proclaim the Judeo-Christian tradition as enlightened is to ignore the homophobic and genderised oppression of the catholic church, the educational regression of the intelligent design movement of the southern US, and the impact of fundamentalism upon the advancement of genetic science and technology. These social atrocities, handed down not by the moderate but by the extremist element of our own "superior" culture, serve to highlight that the blind faith which guides the suicide bomber is burning just as bright within our own culture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-77614697945448891942009-02-04T05:25:00.000-05:002009-02-04T05:25:00.000-05:00Fluff-piece. (Comment moderation has been enabled....Fluff-piece. <BR/><BR/><BR/>(Comment moderation has been enabled. All comments must be approved by the blog author.)Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04297199922109718664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-81198523800265397012009-02-03T20:30:00.000-05:002009-02-03T20:30:00.000-05:00The excellent Citizen Warrior has a new thought-...The excellent Citizen Warrior has a new <A HREF="http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2009/01/end-of-political-correctness-is-near.html" REL="nofollow"> thought-provoking article </A> about the multiculturalist dogma that 'all cultures are equal' . The article was actually so thought-provoking it set me to thinking of whether there is any logical argument that can demonstrate the inequality of cultures, and it occurred to me that different cultures can be thought of as 'sets' of beliefs and customs which may or may not overlap. <BR/><BR/>If we apply set theory to multiculturalism, then Judeo-Christian civilisation can be shown to be superior to Islam, because when examined closely, Islamic culture is seen to be nothing other than an impoverished subset of Judeo-Christian culture. Consequently, Islamic culture cannot add anything to ours, it can only subtract and destroy. <BR/><BR/>Every aspect of present-day Islamic culture that appears to be different from our own is in fact already contained within our culture, it's just part of the subset of beliefs and customs marked 'history'. For example - tribalism, theocracy, punishment by amputations, repression of women, honour killings, blasphemy laws etc - we've been there and done that and given it up centuries ago.<BR/><BR/>As with adolescent vandals, those who lack creativity can only express themselves by destruction, and Muslims are very good at destroying the products of other civilisations (known as 'Jahiliyya') . Remember the Buddhas of Bamiyan! <BR/><BR/>If you look carefully at the process of Islamification in Europe, you'll see that nothing is being added (apart from babies and mosques), but much is being taken away. Almost every Muslim demand is culturally destructive and 'subtractive' rather than 'additive'. They want to remove pig statues, ban alcohol, curb free speech, stop teaching art, music, drama, biology and other 'un-Islamic' subjects in schools. And the mere presence of Muslims in the West reduces the quality of life, with security restrictions on travel; and kaffir women and children in Muslim-infested cities unable to move and play freely for fear of sexual predators.<BR/><BR/>In contrast to the subtractive impacts of Muslims on Western civilisation, Muslim clerics in in Dar al-Islam are paranoid about the addition of aspects of Western culture such as fashion, music, toys, cinema, art, science etc to their own, which they refer to as <A HREF="http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2008/04/29/clerics-decry-westoxication-of-iran.aspx" REL="nofollow"> 'Westoxication'</A><BR/><BR/>So, no matter what the multiculturalists tell us, Islam cannot bring 'cultural enrichment' to the West - it can only bring cultural impoverishment. <BR/><BR/>To say that Muslim immigrants are worthless is to overvalue them. In fact they have a negative cultural worth, because their attempts to Islamify the West are an attempt to reduce the rich culture of a superior civilisation to a depleted and restricted subset.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-49095604550413423312009-02-03T17:44:00.000-05:002009-02-03T17:44:00.000-05:00A second attempt is to be made to show FITNA in th...A second attempt is to be made to show FITNA in the House of Lords in defiance of 'Lord' Ahmed and his 10,000 enraged third-world savages: <BR/><BR/>http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3317931/the-intimidation-of-shortAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-28717483138488820512009-02-03T12:35:00.000-05:002009-02-03T12:35:00.000-05:00You got to be hot in love, hot in politics, cold t...You got to be hot in love, hot in politics, cold to those who are wrong and evil and hot towards those who are good and right.<BR/><BR/>Moderation means you don't give a damn. <BR/>As for choosing battles in life I don't know of one thing that isn't worth fighting for with passion even down to pancakes in the morning vs cold toast.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com