tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post4130881581512090424..comments2024-03-18T19:14:18.804-04:00Comments on Daniel Greenfield / Sultan Knish Articles at DanielGreenfield.org : The Tree of ZionismDaniel Greenfieldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-46111122028808417882010-07-05T18:57:15.081-04:002010-07-05T18:57:15.081-04:00In Islam it states several times that the Qur'...In Islam it states several times that the Qur'an confirms which was given in the Torah and Injil. In apartheid Saudi where no Jew is allowed in and no Bible or New Testament is allowed, how can they possibly know if the Qur'an is confirming what has preceded it???<br /><br />However in Europe and the free (by the skin of its teeth) west, Muslims DO have access to what preceded the Qur'an and yet can't put 2 and 2 together. All the prophets are Jewish, they say they revere them, then please have the courtesy/plain common sense to read them!<br /><br />Ezekiel 35-36, my fave at the moment, as yes, we will all rejoice when YY slaps them all daft, we've all had them up to here (me pointing to my forehead). It's not Israel saying 'these two nations, these 2 countries will be mine, we will take possession of them" and yes YY is there and yes, He's heard all the blasphemous talk against the mountains of Israel - yes, the name Israel mentioned by a JEW 2,650ish years ago, and presumed to be re-established again.....just like that, amazing, it's as if the Torah's right or something. and now 36 what a prophecy, how do Muslims just not get that it's them (and the secular nations in cahoots with them) he's talking about? The enemy boasts about the ancient high places being theirs now, they love malicious talk and they love to slander Jews - Muslims, read on, please, for your own sakes. You say you revere the prophets, read them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-88504378692662732012010-07-04T12:09:53.740-04:002010-07-04T12:09:53.740-04:00I'm sure you know how political correctness wo...I'm sure you know how political correctness works. Anyone who offends a liberal gets fired. Anyone offended by a liberal is told to go to hell.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-31964467700226614642010-07-04T10:39:12.186-04:002010-07-04T10:39:12.186-04:00Dear Daniel, several comments back I said that par...Dear Daniel, several comments back I said that parents should picket schools and universities where educators teach anti-Israel and anti-Jewish concepts.<br /><br />You offered the following reply:<br /><br />"As for the people, again go and try picketing Yale over what they teach. Do you think you'll have much luck. And if not, why do you think Israeli parents will have more luck picketing Hebrew University, which in any case is mainly funded by American donors. Winning a culture war is not easy and that's a fact".<br /><br />I generally defer to you because you know A LOT more than I do, but this morning I saw a news item that tends to vindicate me a little (not quite since the situation is reversed, with leftists being the offended party). <br /><br />YNET reports that a Ben Gurion professor's course has been cancelled and the professor dismissed because he gave an opinion that allegedly offended the homosexual students. <br /> <br />I quote YNET:<br /><br />A bioethics course taught by Dr. Yeruham Leavitt at Ben-Gurion University was canceled after he implied that homosexuality was a flaw that could be "contained", Ynet learned Sunday. <br /><br />About a month ago he received a letter saying the course had been cancelled due to a "hurtful and inappropriate" remark he made in class<br /><br />Some students who were offended by the remarks complained to the university's faculty committee.<br /><br />Ynet obtained a letter in which Prof. Riad Agbaria, head of the Clinical Pharmacology Department, confirmed that Leavitt's contract has been terminated. <br /><br />"There is no room for personal opinions that offend some of the students," the letter read. <br />Dr. Leavitt told Ynet, "My embarrassing dismissal from Ben-Gurion University constitutes a severe violation of basic rights, including the right to dignity, academic freedom and freedom of expression." <br /><br />http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3914683,00.html<br /><br />As you see, Daniel, it's not the lack of public pressure that keeps Israel-bashing and Jewish-bashing professors in Israeli universities. <br /><br />It is the way Israelis gave in to leftist's dominance in all sectors influencing public opinion.<br /><br />And it's fatalism. A sense of helplessness. The same that allows the Netanyahu government to act on behalf of the government of the USA. The same that may allow the complete dismantling of Israel before its 100th birthday.<br /><br />The anti-Israel and anti-Jewish teachings of Israeli professors should offend not only nationalists but ALL Jews. And yet, nobody has dared to mount a serious campaign to counteract the degrading and OFFENSIVE comments made by so many Israeli professors. <br /><br />This professor, who happens to be a SETTLER, made just one politically incorrect move and he's OUT. <br /><br />(He may have been set up too.)<br /><br />This decision should be used as a legal precedent! <br /><br />Will anyone AT ALL declare to be offended by anti-Israel and anti-Jewish professors and demand their dismissal? <br /><br />And will anyone ever legally confront the state of Israel for its double standards? Such as being liable for saying anything that might offend the Arabs but being free to use the vilest of expressions to refer to Jews?<br /><br />Some of the most outspokenly anti-Israel and anti-Jewish media and professors in the whole planet are in Israel, of all places!!!Tracy Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00518463946300763941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-289532790858363092010-07-01T23:07:35.903-04:002010-07-01T23:07:35.903-04:00Ahoovah! It's good to see you here again. Long...Ahoovah! It's good to see you here again. Long time no see.Keli Atahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05089132216830000713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-76859188186810199132010-07-01T23:05:30.186-04:002010-07-01T23:05:30.186-04:00Broadwood: I did not intend to pick a fight. I was...Broadwood: I did not intend to pick a fight. I was just responding to your response. <br /><br />The point of the article is that nobody can deny that Israel belongs to the Jewish people. People can try to deny it, it doesn't make their denials true.<br /><br />That's all.Keli Atahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05089132216830000713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-32500894308718518472010-07-01T22:53:02.253-04:002010-07-01T22:53:02.253-04:00It's not about the historical King David. I...It's not about the historical King David. I'm saying there's no Jewish religious movement called Davidic. Just as there's no movement called Solomonic, etc.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-28552874083025349652010-07-01T22:38:32.516-04:002010-07-01T22:38:32.516-04:00DG, I don't understand what you mean by "...DG, I don't understand what you mean by "there's no such thing as Davidic .... Judaism", unless it is exactly the same as current messianic judaism.<br />Are there differences of opinion whether scriptures, subsequent to David's time as king, were interpreted as also being prophetic- or not prophetic? <br />I'm just trying to understand, and could move my questions elsewhere if you don't want them here.<br />Thanks either way.2sloehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07687684487054065583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-3193269894545943592010-07-01T20:33:50.755-04:002010-07-01T20:33:50.755-04:00Yes I'm aware it was a quote, I was addressing...Yes I'm aware it was a quote, I was addressing the original attribution.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-63099707033799733802010-07-01T17:52:53.234-04:002010-07-01T17:52:53.234-04:00DG,
As for myself, I was replying to Shlomo about ...DG,<br />As for myself, I was replying to Shlomo about christian zionist views, not trying to do more than that.<br />I felt no offence, but some eye-opening humor, even if (somewhat) at my own expense.<br />You were only in quotes due to the context of his comment, & I didn't take that statement as being yours.<br />I come here to learn, because your information and skills are meaningful. I have also enjoyed the dialogue with others, it leads to a bit more understanding between individuals.<br />We each speak for ourselves, and I think both christian & jew can only somewhat narrowly reference others. <br /><br />Avi, re: "...Xtian Zionists support us, but if we didn't have weapons, they'd be attacking us,..." Oh my goodness! Such a broad view of people is SO sad.<br />That would be just like attacking G-d.2sloehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07687684487054065583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-30525806973331437372010-07-01T16:17:32.639-04:002010-07-01T16:17:32.639-04:00This article was not meant to raise any Jewish/Chr...This article was not meant to raise any Jewish/Christian debates. That was not its purpose.<br /><br />I don't tell anyone what their religious beliefs should be, and in turn the same reasonable courtesy is expected.<br /><br />There's a good deal of ignorance on both sides of the other, which is the usual course of things.<br /><br />Christian Zionism is not of the "lower classes", nor does it exist out of fear. It's more the product of biblical literalism. Denominations that take the bible literally, also tend to be more pro-Israel. Liberal denominations who view everything as a metaphor for social justice, won't see it that way.<br /><br />The same split exists in Judaism, with biblical literalism correlating with an attachment to the land of Israel.<br /><br />Forcible conversions generally ended in the 19th century with the Mortara case and that involved the Catholic church. As an institutional situation anyway.<br /><br />On the other side, there's no such thing as Davidic or Messianic Judaism, those are both subsets of Christianity, most of whose members are not even ethnically Jewish, but make some sort of effort at integrating Hebraic elements into their worship. But that's not Jewish anymore, than the use of a collection plate and an organ in Reform synagogues makes them Christian.<br /><br />Jewishness is both genetic and spiritual, they're both part of what makes the Jewish people. Christians are free to hold whatever beliefs they like, but please understand it's not "sharing", it's undermining someone else's religion.<br /><br />Finally I didn't say that Christian Zionists have no influence, but that there is very little influence at the foreign policy level in terms of practical politics, but a certain amount of congressional influence. Considering that US politics is more culturally liberal, that is not surprising.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-50011538563821285522010-07-01T16:00:54.236-04:002010-07-01T16:00:54.236-04:00Shlomo,
Yes there are big theological disagreemen...Shlomo, <br />Yes there are big theological disagreements between zionist christians vs others, just as between various Jewish mind-sets. <br />This makes it even more difficult for you & I to understand each other. Such is the state of mankind.<br /><br />"...Christian Zionism... only thrives amongst the blue collar, or where poverty is.":<br /> Ouch, but thanks for your honesty. That is a stereotype. Not true. Zionism is highest among christians who most highly value studying scripture, straight through everything from Genesis to Malachi (aprx 876 pgs) as well as our new testament (aprx 270 pgs). So just in terms of time-spent in your scriptures, we are influenced to love Israel.<br /><br />"As Daniel said, they have no real influence anywhere": I can't know. <br />We are very vocal for Israel. <br />but living faith is not all about having influence over others. It is first about putting ones' self under the influence of G-d. <br />He defined Israels' borders, and to always remain the same.2sloehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07687684487054065583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-65453690226397701862010-07-01T15:43:09.261-04:002010-07-01T15:43:09.261-04:00Keli and Daniel,
I'm not here to pick a fight...Keli and Daniel,<br /><br />I'm not here to pick a fight with anyone about their beliefs, I'm just trying to set the record straight about the attitude of Christians (or at least, the ones I know) to Jews and Israel. One's Jewishness is a birthright, whether one practices or not, and whether you are Hassidic, Sephardim or Davidic, etc. There are also Messianic Jews, who accept the Christian view of Jesus and the New Testament, but hold to their Jewish ethnicity and heritage very strongly. There are also Christians with no Jewsih ethnicity who observe Torah and the Jewish Festivals.<br /><br />It is true, we have Jesus's direct command to spread the 'Good News' - I make no apology for that, but it is NOT tantamount to wanting to 'assimilate' or 'wipe out' Judaism. <br /><br />But from our point of view (no offence intended)it is our conviction that Jesus completes the revelation you already have and have faithfully guarded for centuries. You are free to make your own decision about that, but how could we respect and love our elder brothers and sisters in faith if we did not share it with you? But I'm sorry you have some insensitive Christian witness in Israel. That's not how it should be. <br /><br />An anonmymous poster above reminded us that the Biblical Christian view is that we, as Gentile beleivers, are 'grafted in' to Israel, by the grace of Hashem, not the other way around. <br /><br />Shalom.Broadwoodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-46714077967755653312010-07-01T13:20:59.752-04:002010-07-01T13:20:59.752-04:00Very moving, Sultan, thank you.
yamit33 said... “...Very moving, Sultan, thank you.<br /><br />yamit33 said... “Down with rationalism!!! It is self defeating pessimism and quite depressing. Jewish History is not rational. Israels history is not rationally logical. Rationalism is the enemy of the Jews. It's time to return to our natural and irrational optimism.” <br />:) Actually, yamit33, Jewish history is absolutely logical. One can say this with the most rational optimism.<br />Márcia LealAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-20696176240438757862010-07-01T13:13:19.434-04:002010-07-01T13:13:19.434-04:00This is a good blog. Good article.
Some of the co...This is a good blog. Good article. <br />Some of the comments are misguided though especially the xtian ones who want to reassure us. <br /><br />Broadwood, <br /><br />The Islamists don't want to kill us because of our religon, they want the land. There is a difference. Xtian Zionists support us, but if we didn't have weapons, they'd be attacking us, as xtianity alwasy has (crusaders). The sweet pill you offer as a comparison doesn't gel, because Islam did have a tolerant attitude if second class towards Jews, xtianity always tried to kill us. I believe they support us now as friends only because xtianity can no longer kill us to convert nor take our land or they will face 300 nukes. <br /><br />That is one difference that xtian zionists like to say, my guess is because they want to scare us, or convince us "accpet our support". The truth is, just like Greenfield said, it's ugly and not acceptable. Sorry for the harsh words, but a spiritual death is worse than a physical one. It has no beneficial advantage for Israel in that xtian Zionist party (bush) called for a 2 state solution, which is no different to the liberals. We do however have to put up with xtian influence in Israel which is not good, as they prey on vulnerabless. <br /><br />Greenfield, <br /><br />Thanx. Good articles. Glad I found you. xtian Zionism is falling not rising. Do you think that it ever did anything good? I've yet to see anything good come of it. <br /><br /><br />Christian Zionist influence retracting<br />By Daoud Kuttab<br />December 24, 2007<br />Why Evangelical Support for Israel is shrinking?<br /><br />http://www.daoudkuttab.com/?p=459Avinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-48800290689151143802010-07-01T12:01:43.168-04:002010-07-01T12:01:43.168-04:00Broadwoood--writing in general and not to you spec...Broadwoood--writing in general and not to you specifically, if Christians really want to share our faith they can either embrace the Noachide laws or convert (though conversion is discouraged.)<br /><br />But to do that requires a fundamental change in one's belief as to the nature of G-d and absolute oneness of G-d as opposed to a compound one (ie. trinity).<br /><br />If you are unfamiliar with the Noachide movement there are plenty of sites online.<br /><br />Christians on the whole believe they are grafted in to Judaism but do not share these basic beliefs. And for some reason are defensive if not downright offensive when it comes to our sabbath (though the Sabbath is a gift to the Jews only and Noachides are forbidden to observe it in the same way Jews do).<br /><br />Christians seeking to graft themselves and their religion into Judaism actually want to dissolve Judaism. Christianity shares little in common with Judaism. Yes, you include a distorted version of the Tanach ("old testament") in their bible, the interpretation of that first and lasting covenant if diametrically in opposition to Judaism.<br /><br />"Open my heart to Your Torah, and my soul will pursue Your commandments."<br /><br />I hope Hashem will open your heart to His true Torah, though you are, of course, free to believe what you will.<br /><br />********<br /><br />Yamit--I love your comments:) do you have a blog? If not, you really should.Keli Atahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05089132216830000713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-7983251074538718882010-07-01T10:09:11.301-04:002010-07-01T10:09:11.301-04:00Broadwood,
it's a difference, but not a world...Broadwood,<br /><br />it's a difference, but not a world of difference. A collective campaign to wipe out a different religion through non-violent means is still a pretty ugly thingDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-27154591706594171762010-07-01T10:08:40.532-04:002010-07-01T10:08:40.532-04:00Shlomo,
most Christians yes, most Christians in t...Shlomo,<br /><br />most Christians yes, most Christians in the US, no.<br /><br />the exact figures are hard to pin down, but they would seem to be growing, as opposed to many of the liberal churches which are actually shrinking or tearing themselves apart, see the episcopaliansDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-62280353024264941672010-07-01T04:58:26.888-04:002010-07-01T04:58:26.888-04:002Sloe:
"Anyway, what defines "support f...2Sloe:<br /><br />"Anyway, what defines "support for Israel being STRONG"? or "Not strong"?<br />It is strong amongst scripture-studied and believing christians.<br /><br />Is not "A little" WITH G-d stronger than "A lot" withOUT HIM?<br /><br />Support for Israel will always be strong, for her strength is in The LORD."<br /><br />Amen, amen.<br /><br />And Keli:<br /><br />"It's not just replacement theology. It's replacement theology put into practice. Spiritually and materially Christian Zionists and Muslims want to destroy Israel. And I can't help but have doubts as to how long this "Christian love of the Jewish people" will last since Muslims want to convert Christians as much as Christians want to convert Muslims and just about everyone else on planet earth."<br /><br />There is a profound difference between inviting someone to share your own faith and wanting them dead if they don't. <br /><br />Jewish and Christian prophecy indicates that Israel, the physical nation, is the 'apple of G_d's eye', and it's re-establishemnt is a prophetic milestone. No Bible-believing Christian would ever deny that. I repeat: Replacement theology is an unbiblical heresy.<br /><br />Please allow yourself to believe you have more friends than you could know.Broadwoodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-83628471597797975632010-07-01T03:58:07.467-04:002010-07-01T03:58:07.467-04:00Brillant , Thank YouBrillant , Thank YouAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-24918453201352596292010-07-01T03:41:12.003-04:002010-07-01T03:41:12.003-04:00Rationalism and Jewish History is like water and o...Rationalism and Jewish History is like water and oil.<br /><br />Down with rationalism!!! It is self defeating pessimism and quite depressing. Jewish History is not rational. Israels history is not rationally logical.<br /><br />Rational people could not imagine that beliefs protect, yet that’s how the Jews survived—against all odds. Rational people told Moses it was unsafe to leave Egypt, and then wanted to return. Rational Jews agreed with rational scouts that Canaan was unconquerable. Rational Jerusalemites advised the king to surrender to the Babylonians. Rational, progressive Jews submitted to Antiochus and ate pork—until the Maccabees arose. Rational Jews understood that there is nothing wrong with Christianity, and converted. That Germans are a civilized people, and did not flee to Palestine. That Zionism is utopia, and stayed in Russia. That Turks and Christians would never concede Jerusalem to Jews, and accepted Uganda. That a Jewish militia cannot win against Arab armies, and urged us to abstain from proclaiming a Jewish state. That Israel was lost in 1973, and urged capitulation. That we can't survive without American and gentile friends help.<br /><br />Rationalism is the enemy of the Jews. It's time to return to our natural and irrational optimism.<br />___________________________________<br /><br />"Thus declared HaShem, Master of Legions, saying, 'This [Jewish] people has said: "The time has not yet come!" [But I say:] "It is time for the Temple of HaShem to be rebuilt!"'" (Haggai 1:2)yamit33https://www.blogger.com/profile/04463759375229777469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-44438569623855156032010-07-01T03:21:50.465-04:002010-07-01T03:21:50.465-04:00Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog said...
...Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog said...<br /><br />It is the slow patient endurance of a people of history who are not going anywhere.<br />_____________________________________<br /><br />There is a story in the Talmud of and old person, Honi, who was observed planting a carob tree. When asked if he really expected to live long enough to consume the fruits of his labor, he replied: "I was born into a world flourishing with ready pleasures. My ancestors planted for me, and now I plant for my children..."<br />___________________________________<br />We Jews have several historical parallels to our general situation today. Specifically the book of Maccabees. That resulted in a bloody civil war of holocaust proportions. Hanukkah is a celebration of religious Zionists of their day defeating the assimilationist (liberal) Jews<br />of their time.<br /><br />Who knows? It might repeat in our time.<br />_________________________________yamit33https://www.blogger.com/profile/04463759375229777469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-26624799951391265772010-07-01T02:56:55.006-04:002010-07-01T02:56:55.006-04:002sloe
You say that they are departed from scriptu...2sloe<br /><br />You say that they are departed from scripture, and they say the same about you. The fact is most of Christianity shares THEIR belief, the Christian Zionists are seen as having departed from scripture, and if you see the trend is towards Christian Zionism DECLINING not growing. It only thrives amongst the blue collar, or where poverty is. <br /><br />As Daniel said, they have no real influence anywhere and from our side as another member said above, they do spend millions on missionising in Israel which is causing problems in the Charedi community. <br /><br />Daniel I disagree when you say Israel is like the west. Polls in western countries put Israel, Iran and North Korea as being enemies of civilisation, aside from in the US, but even that is changing under Obumber Huseein. Do you think Obumber will be out at the next election? I hope so, what can we do to bring that about? Write some thoughts on it please. You usually hit the nail on the head.Shlomonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-89969035967849481022010-06-30T22:42:13.891-04:002010-06-30T22:42:13.891-04:00Shlomo,
The General Assembly of The "National...Shlomo,<br />The General Assembly of The "National Council of Churches" is a deceptively titled group of denominations which have departed from scripture 'across the board', not only regarding Israel.<br />DG was kind in calling them "Left".<br /><br />Anyway, what defines "support for Israel being STRONG"? or "Not strong"? <br />It is strong amongst scripture-studied and believing christians.<br /><br />Is not "A little" WITH G-d stronger than "A lot" withOUT HIM?<br /><br />Support for Israel will always be strong, for her strength is in The LORD.2sloehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07687684487054065583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-27278110161430087462010-06-30T22:17:40.996-04:002010-06-30T22:17:40.996-04:00Tracy,
Israel doesn't exist in isolation. Its...Tracy,<br /><br />Israel doesn't exist in isolation. Its situation is graver, but it's influenced by the same trends and the same cold winds blowing through the West. <br /><br />All this is connected. That has always been my point. <br /><br />As for the people, again go and try picketing Yale over what they teach. Do you think you'll have much luck. And if not, why do you think Israeli parents will have more luck picketing Hebrew University, which in any case is mainly funded by American donors. <br /><br />Winning a culture war is not easy and that's a fact.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-55046212866995098592010-06-30T22:04:49.990-04:002010-06-30T22:04:49.990-04:00Just when things look bad Tracy, don't worry. ...Just when things look bad Tracy, don't worry. It will be just fine.Shilohnoreply@blogger.com