tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post2490824310665465572..comments2024-03-29T00:24:13.128-04:00Comments on Daniel Greenfield / Sultan Knish Articles at DanielGreenfield.org : Only Belief Can Save IsraelDaniel Greenfieldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-6831935764015762002007-09-07T17:46:00.000-04:002007-09-07T17:46:00.000-04:00Great article as usual.Great article as usual.Chana @ Lemon Lime Moonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11656854855385193867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-76278103690951896462007-09-07T14:36:00.000-04:002007-09-07T14:36:00.000-04:00Sorry, after rereading your comments I have to dis...Sorry, after rereading your comments I have to disagree with part of your opinion. "Today both Likud and Labor have been destroyed ideologically and politically. Both parties are in ruins and their beliefs have been shredded. Kadima, the unclean birth of both parties, represented the end of ideology, the loss of faith and the rise of opportunism."<BR/><BR/>While true for much of Likud it is not true for the dieheat Laborite. Originally the masses (the people) where behind the Left-wing parties. Now the Laborites are the same, or worse, while the masses have moved toward the Right. But, the leadership is ideologically intact. They remain opposed to pro-traditional Jews more then Arabs. Unfortunately, the Left tightly controls the bureaucracy; including the media, Judiciary, etc.<BR/><BR/>So it is only Likud that is damaged. This is so telling when you consider that the people would rally around Likud if it had some ideology.<BR/><BR/>I agree that the world-views socialism of Labor is willing to work with a socialistic group like Fatah/Abbas, even though Fatah is as much a terrorist bunch as Hamas. Nevertheless, Labor loves all forms of socialism more then self preservation itself. Hamas is viewed as no better then the traditional Right. This is the only reason why Labor is opposed to Hamas. Killing of Jews would otherwise be OK.<BR/><BR/>The goal of the current leadership is to bring about world socialism, perhaps of several flavors. Their hope is not a two State situation, but an Israeli minority swallowed up in an Arab ocean. For Labor it is ideology and money while for Kadima it is money and neo-ideology.<BR/><BR/>An interesting question that I have not seen discussed is why is the world Left is so focused on Israel. My theory is that much of the monotheistic religions depends on Biblical interpretations of "end-times" events. Since absolute socialism is anti-G-d, they view undermining Israel a fast track to destroying Religion. This is not problematic for Islam since they only consider the Quran as real.<BR/><BR/>One might ask how the Left can work with dedicated Muslims? In the long run they are destined to battle it out, but for now they can share in each others benefits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-3933350103371830082007-09-07T14:24:00.001-04:002007-09-07T14:24:00.001-04:00well history tends to be somewhat dumbed downzioni...well history tends to be somewhat dumbed down<BR/><BR/>zionism broke down into different factions, just as the revolutionary factions in american independence did<BR/><BR/>(who remembers for example that ethan allen and the green mountain boys originally were conducting a conflict with new york)<BR/><BR/>not that many know just how vicious the split got between federalists and anti-federalists and supporters and opponents of world revolution... and how that carries on in american politics today between republicans and democrats<BR/><BR/>zionism like american independence was not a political belief held by everyone, israel had its share of 'tories' and on the zionist side, you had a whole spectrum too<BR/><BR/>unfortunately quite a few of the 'tories' became the labor partyDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-70949203934853906322007-09-07T14:24:00.000-04:002007-09-07T14:24:00.000-04:00Politics is not the answer to Israel's problems wh...Politics is not the answer to Israel's problems which are spiritual in nature.<BR/>Until there is a rather large change of heart in Israel among the people, until there is a return to the values that made Yaakov "become" Israel, nothing will change no matter who is in power.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-54204364984641210052007-09-07T13:29:00.000-04:002007-09-07T13:29:00.000-04:00I guess I am number 10 to comment lol. I would hav...I guess I am number 10 to comment lol. I would have sooner but all the phrases and splinters of Zionist groups can be very confusing. I've always thought of the term as an umbrella category encompassing all Israelis.<BR/><BR/>The impression I had of Zionism was that before Israel became a state in 1948 (Sigh. My only source of reference growing up being that tv movie starring Judy Davis. What can I say? I was kid and Israeli politics and history wasn't taught in public schools.)<BR/><BR/>Anyway...my impression of Zionism was that all Israelis were Zionists. They were one and the same. Both committed to establishing a Jewish state post WW II after 6 million were slaughtered and as the world let the survivors float around in boats with no where to dock.<BR/><BR/>So, Israel was a safe haven as well as the land promised by G-d. Religious Jews can view it in one way, secular the other. But both united in their determination that the survival of the Jewish people made an Israeli state essential.<BR/><BR/>Iran wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. There is something deeply disturbing about the Jewish population in Israel currently at around 7 million. Israel and Israelis really do need to get into survival mode.<BR/><BR/>Unlike WW II where early intervention could have saved Jewish lives, with a nuclear attack it would be a one shot attack. Here today, gone tomorrow. Literally.<BR/><BR/>Sorry. That is a gloomy thought but one that does go through my mind often.<BR/><BR/>(What about Women in Green as a possible political party starting at the grassroots level?)Keli Atahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05089132216830000713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-1220395102493280552007-09-07T09:37:00.000-04:002007-09-07T09:37:00.000-04:00I don't think R. Kahane intended to build a person...I don't think R. Kahane intended to build a personality cult, he simply lacked people to work with<BR/><BR/>too much of his organizations got filled up with unstable people, you can see it in all the bickering and the splintered groups<BR/><BR/>R. Kahane's beginning in activism in america precluded a lot of that but once he did move to israel though, he needed to work more on building a real movement before diving into politics, the way feiglin has tried to<BR/><BR/>still hindsight is 20/20<BR/><BR/>betar was to some extent a personality cult but in a controlled limited way and it harnessed the energy of a lot of brilliant and committed people, in part i think it's because jabotinsky or even begin led from the sidelines and often put the actual leadership in other people's hands... R. Kahane tried to do too much himself and so there was no one to take his placeDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-75272755291709258332007-09-07T09:24:00.000-04:002007-09-07T09:24:00.000-04:00I knew and once supported Kahane. My only issue wi...I knew and once supported Kahane. My only issue with him was that he built a personality cult and not a true movement that could survive his murder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-42423219441241987562007-09-07T01:06:00.000-04:002007-09-07T01:06:00.000-04:00Anybody else Kahana, anyone else.Anybody else Kahana, anyone else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-34818975032271272092007-09-07T00:19:00.000-04:002007-09-07T00:19:00.000-04:00Powerful. Yes, we need Jewish Zionism. I do think ...Powerful. Yes, we need Jewish Zionism. I do think that there are to many people who will not vote for Torah Zionism out of fear of creating a theocracy. The trick is designing a Right wing party that nonreligious but leaning towards tradition values can vote for. Until such a party comes into being Israel will continue to be cursed with the Left. who win by apathy. This style was embodied by Rabbi Kahana. And we know how the Left used the legal system to stop him. The same for Rabbi Dyre the previous head of Shas. So whatever party is formed better learn how to circumvent the system and be a legally clean as a newborn baby. PS one can be favorable inclined towards a belief and not be religious. Such as the son who is a Tam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-23340157029000627302007-09-07T00:02:00.000-04:002007-09-07T00:02:00.000-04:00Then name one person who has the abilities of the ...Then name one person who has the abilities of the Rav?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-64945298704728626112007-09-06T23:30:00.000-04:002007-09-06T23:30:00.000-04:00"but there is no one who is half the man the Rav w..."but there is no one who is half the man the Rav was"<BR/><BR/>What malarkey.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-36362661241901845882007-09-06T21:35:00.000-04:002007-09-06T21:35:00.000-04:00All well and good and Rabbi Kahane zt'l was succes...All well and good and Rabbi Kahane zt'l was succesful in creating a ideology to live by, but there is no one who is half the man the Rav was, and we see what the powers that be did when he became a threat to their rule.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-50013447049522700282007-09-06T18:52:00.000-04:002007-09-06T18:52:00.000-04:00K - The ideas are there, a lot of it just needs to...K - The ideas are there, a lot of it just needs to be picked up again. For example R. Kahane picked up a lot of what Jabotinsky had been saying. Leadership is a trickier problem but when enough people gather together, historically leaders emerge.<BR/><BR/>Y - Hopefully Hashem will send Moshiach but barring that people need to act tooDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-48811892993948595812007-09-06T18:29:00.000-04:002007-09-06T18:29:00.000-04:00And are there really any men in Israel? Could a m...And are there really any men in Israel? Could a man eating lion enter Israel and starve to death? (dasturdly grin)<BR/><BR/>I seriously have no confidence in any of the parties. I vote for the only way out is for Hashem to finally send Moshiach and rescue our sorry hides. It's the only way I see anything good happening.Yobeeonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13067866336964665242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-75245402178278483952007-09-06T15:41:00.000-04:002007-09-06T15:41:00.000-04:00Sultan, interesting idea, but who is there to crea...Sultan, interesting idea, but who is there to create such an ideology and who is there to lead the believers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com