tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post1137695605243643973..comments2024-03-29T00:24:13.128-04:00Comments on Daniel Greenfield / Sultan Knish Articles at DanielGreenfield.org : Israel, State and NationDaniel Greenfieldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-45468464935791322012011-03-07T23:41:18.153-05:002011-03-07T23:41:18.153-05:00Those are valid points, but this article was mainl...Those are valid points, but this article was mainly meant for people who understood the situation already.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-17734079399310205252011-03-07T21:11:55.103-05:002011-03-07T21:11:55.103-05:00Sultan K, I must congratulate you – this must be o...Sultan K, I must congratulate you – this must be one of your finest papers. It is an excellent exposition not only of the dynamics in Israeli politics, but also of the leftist effort to destroy the religious and “settler” nationalists (the left seems not to realize that there’s any difference).<br /><br />There are a couple of points that I think that you could have stressed. True, the Knesset members don’t really have any responsibility to the nation or even their constituents, but even in the US, with local election districts, members of congress do try to satisfy members of their districts, but often at the expense of the nation (pork barrel bills).<br /><br />I also thought that after WWII it was definitely decided that “I was following orders” was not a valid defence for certain non-permitted actions against an enemy, especially civilians. Thus “I was following orders from the secular government” is not a defence, while it would be valid in such a case to invoke a higher law to avoid the action.<br /><br />(I apologize again for sending a comment to an article over a year old. I must say, however, that it’s your own fault. After each article you have a statement “You might also like:” followed by four or five options. Since I haven’t been following your blog since its beginning . . .)Irwin Ruffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-91643129018116212722010-01-01T01:29:15.343-05:002010-01-01T01:29:15.343-05:00Recently I was told by a Liberal acquaintance: &qu...Recently I was told by a Liberal acquaintance: "American Jews should support the decisions of the elected government of Israel and help it do what it feels is best for its security. If they want to oppose the government and impact its policy, they should live there..."<br /><br /> I do not feel the least compelled to support the government of Israel or any government , including the United States government if it brings harm to the Jewish Nation. And Norm , you can add the media to the list of coercive levers of power in Israel and for America for that matter.Moriahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10031303390387367887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-84817149752189873812009-12-30T22:06:12.229-05:002009-12-30T22:06:12.229-05:00"It is very complicated..."
No Sir, it ..."It is very complicated..."<br /><br />No Sir, it is very simple!<br /><br />If you do not fight a war, you lose!<br /><br />And the most important war is the war of ideas. Americans did not<br /> fight it and woke up with hippie<br /> children, enemies of the nation,<br />with an enemy at it's head,<br />dedicated to it's destruction.<br /><br />Sun Tzu taught that the best<br /> general do not fight the physical<br /> war but vanquish with the psychological combat.<br /><br />The Israeli political confusion is deliberate, just like the tank<br />and the battleship's smoke generators blind the opponents.<br /><br />The confusion was intended to blind everyone to the suicidal<br />impulses injected into the nation's<br />psyche under the smoke of this predeterminated political mess...<br /><br />Sorry, Israel missed it's last<br /> window of opportunity during the<br /> last days of Bush, to snuff Iran's<br />nuclear bomb building.<br /><br />Now, Tehran, in a couple years, will be fronted by a choice of<br />equally dangerous<br />ennemies to nuke...Karachi,<br />Cairo, Mecca or Tel Aviv...who do<br />you think they will choose???<br /><br />Even if they hold off for a bit,<br /> it is certain that the others,<br /> the ay-rabs, they will ALSO get the nukes,<br />and who will be their target?Wabanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04437195079842037921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-91105553765403751392009-12-30T17:46:57.640-05:002009-12-30T17:46:57.640-05:00K.A.
the left tends to only be patriotic when the...K.A.<br /><br />the left tends to only be patriotic when they're in charge, and once the push to left wing radicalism begins, it spirals out of control with even the left having its own radical opposition<br /><br />early on, there were different factions, secular and religious, that were zionist. And there were secular and religious factions that were anti-zionist. It's a complicated history.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-23647817666884647022009-12-30T17:40:01.307-05:002009-12-30T17:40:01.307-05:00Great article. The second picture was powerful.
...Great article. The second picture was powerful.<br /><br /><br />Question: Is there no way to instill patroitism in among the Left leaning Israelis? It almost seems like there's an Israel: Love It Or Leave It attitude (not with you! I mean in general when I read news sites).<br /><br />Are the majority of politically left Israelis either secular or liberal religiously? I find it all confusing because wasn't it the secular Jews who fought for the country early on, and faced opposition from religious Jews?<br /><br />It just seems confusing. If only the religiously liberal Jews could become more moderate-conservative politically.<br /><br />Or does it all come down, in the end, to religion?Keli Atahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05089132216830000713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-17405556003395236212009-12-30T16:26:05.168-05:002009-12-30T16:26:05.168-05:00Hear, hear, if we go by the way of obedience to th...Hear, hear, if we go by the way of obedience to the law (the law is an ass) and not to the Torah law of emet, we become Germany. To the "devout secular", your thesis doesn't hold water, kibutsim are gone, they are conglomerates today, post-Zionism, don't exist anymore, the myth gone, because it was artificial. You have to thank Rabin, Peres and Oslo who have brought upon us the peace with murderes, thousands of Israelis killed and maimed and the far left empowered.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-73913552199523663442009-12-30T14:45:19.183-05:002009-12-30T14:45:19.183-05:00the ultras already weren't enlisting so enlist...the ultras already weren't enlisting so enlistment rates couldn't have dropped because of them, if anything with nahal haredi, they've gone up<br /><br />and the rise in haredi population doesn't account for the rise either<br /><br />the cemeteries may be full of kibbutzniks, but in the present day the sons of the left are increasingly opting out of serviceDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-57099916373762419662009-12-30T14:13:55.670-05:002009-12-30T14:13:55.670-05:00Disclosure: I made aliyah in 1997, and volunteered...Disclosure: I made aliyah in 1997, and volunteered to go to the IDF when I was already 30 years old.<br /><br />I generally agree with your appraisal of the dati leumi community. Even though I am a devout secularist, I thoroughly appreciate the quality of this community, and not just in their superior motivation towards IDF service.<br /><br />However, you neglected to break down the statistics for those who don't go to the IDF. The main group of males who do not enlist are, of course, from the ultra-orthodox sector, who are a burden on Israel in so many other ways as well.<br /><br />Don't forget that the military cemeteries are full of kibbutzniks and others who hailed from the Zionist left.<br /><br />Thanks for a great site!Simonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-87612643134292082132009-12-30T13:23:58.378-05:002009-12-30T13:23:58.378-05:00Yes, people fight for their "family", ho...Yes, people fight for their "family", however one defines it. The state is simply the entity that governs the family. But once you remove the family, the state becomes a tyrannical institution.<br /><br />multiculturalism pushed far enough turns government into the arbiter of people's destiniesDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-35912404554707491172009-12-30T13:09:33.864-05:002009-12-30T13:09:33.864-05:00Once a state or nation adopts multiculturalism as ...Once a state or nation adopts multiculturalism as its guiding framework, then the concept of a people with a common culture and language, go by the board.<br /><br />It then becomes impossible to have an oath or allegiance to anything other then a legally constituted authority.<br /><br />And yet, a person does not go out to fight and die for his country - he goes out to fight for "his people" and "his way of life".<br /><br />A nation fractured by multiculturalism, faced with an enemy that is united by a common language, culture or religion, will in the end be defeated.<br /> <br />So far the West has got by due to huge technological advantage. But such advantages are etherial, and can never replace the spirit that comes from being a part of a "band of brothers".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-80171830101563321172009-12-30T12:30:14.605-05:002009-12-30T12:30:14.605-05:00this is what you really meant to say, no?
We ho...this is what you really meant to say, no?<br /><br /><br />We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security<br />--------------------------mikeThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10484770276722501096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-4020833256626797362009-12-30T10:57:05.930-05:002009-12-30T10:57:05.930-05:00saba shimon, thank yousaba shimon, thank youDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-71344266634048486392009-12-30T10:56:55.469-05:002009-12-30T10:56:55.469-05:00Anonymous,
yes indeed. There's a similar proc...Anonymous,<br /><br />yes indeed. There's a similar process underway in a lot of first world nations. Israel is just getting there a little fasterDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-63965441473683132732009-12-30T10:56:24.357-05:002009-12-30T10:56:24.357-05:00Doug,
I understand what you're saying, but on...Doug, <br />I understand what you're saying, but on the other hand if soldiers do keep obeying such orders, Israel will cease to exist.Daniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-81647904216146914272009-12-30T08:55:17.269-05:002009-12-30T08:55:17.269-05:00Excellent.......thank youExcellent.......thank youSabaShimonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16093434770905504006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-78172812420724041182009-12-30T08:35:38.845-05:002009-12-30T08:35:38.845-05:00Nice, you can almost substitute 'USA' for ...Nice, you can almost substitute 'USA' for Israel for every scenario listed. Isn't it amazing how evil doesn't discriminate and works to infect all potential forces for good in the world. More absolute proof of the existence and everlasting effect of the hand of the creator. He wants a few good men and the conflict causes the truly good to be revealed.<br /><br />Fly on the wall in MassachusettsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-32009536348393620172009-12-30T05:18:14.450-05:002009-12-30T05:18:14.450-05:00I think you're going down a dangerous road, wh...I think you're going down a dangerous road, when you imply that soldiers who do not agree with the actions of their elected government need not obey the orders of that government.<br /><br />If this principle were widely acted on, it would reduce Israel to the status of a Third World state.Doug1943http://liberty-resource-center.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-86568646048514985902009-12-30T00:56:10.453-05:002009-12-30T00:56:10.453-05:00Good piece.Good piece.Chana @ Lemon Lime Moonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11656854855385193867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-30802433395924331202009-12-29T23:27:03.445-05:002009-12-29T23:27:03.445-05:00which will be determined by whether the religious ...which will be determined by whether the religious zionist pop get their act together, or let themselves continue to be co-opted and marginalizedDaniel Greenfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13575285186581875356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11368628.post-6093672416888189392009-12-29T23:24:47.047-05:002009-12-29T23:24:47.047-05:00The Israeli Left forms an increasingly shrinking s...The Israeli Left forms an increasingly shrinking share of Israel's Jewish population but in the meantime they have a death grip on the coercive levers of power: the police, the Shin Bet, the IDF, the Attorney General's Office and the courts. Their strategy is quite clear and simple: to crush the vibrant Religious Zionist movement out of existence. The coordinated campaign against the hesder yeshivas and the freeze both amount to a declaration of war against this community.<br /><br />Whether Israel is going to survive will be determined in large part by who wins: the dying Left or the Religious Zionist population.NormanFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03365459073293643108noreply@blogger.com